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Alcohol and Rape: The True Story

See me? See me tackling this headache-y topic? Go me!

Let's set some baselines first, though. This is not a discussion of legal rape. It's not a discussion of the law at all. Most rapes don't make it to a courtroom. A good number aren't even reported. Whether the law recognizes something as rape or not is irrelevant to this post. Do not bring it up in comments or you will get the Mighty Spanking Icon thrown at you. Plus, it'll make me cranky.

Also, I've seen few to no feminists say that drunk sex automatically equals rape. I've seen few to no feminists who say that even one drink incapacitates a woman to the point where she can't give consent. Don't wave this straw man at me. You will not enjoy the smackdown I deliver to you.

And finally, this discussion is less about sex between regular partners and more focused on a one night stand/hook-up scenario. However, you'll find the whole "one night stand drunk sex" thing is a huge red herring that distracts from the actual topic, which is:



Alcohol and Rape

It's something of the tangliest of rape topics. It's typically the most frustrating to discuss, as well. I know I'm often overwhelmed by the sheer amount of *headdesk* required to converse on it. But let me try to cut through all the confusion to clarify what this is all about.

It might be helpful to read this post of mine about rape. Specifically, about taking rape out of the abstract and talking about the realities of it. That post is likely to be helpful in understanding my perspective on this.

Let's just start at the beginning so that we can discard it.

Drunk Sex

Drunk sex happens. It happens between established partners. It happens between strangers. It happens between friends. Sometimes you regret it the next morning. Sometimes you don't. It's a thing.

Drunken consent is possible. It's, perhaps, trickier when looking at casual hook-ups as then you generally aren't knowledgeable about the other person's alcohol tolerance or general behavior patterns. But even then, it's still do-able.

How do you tell the difference between drunk sex and rape? With drunk sex, both partners are enthusiastically participating and are both able to enthusiastically participate. If there are ever any doubts that your partner may be too drunk to consent, wait until they're sober to have sex with them. If you don't trust your own judgment while drinking, have a wingman/woman to keep an eye on things for you.

What's drunk rape then? Well, it's much like all other forms of rape. Only difference is, there's alcohol involved.

Rape

Rape is when one person does not consent to the sexual acts. When alcohol is thrown in the mix, you may have situations that play just like "sober" rape: A person refuses to have sex, but their refusal is disregarded and sex is forced on them. You may also have someone who's too incapacitated by alcohol to fully consent. Rape in this instance involves one person taking advantage of an unresponsive drunk person. They may even have passed out.

The reason alcohol is such a volatile topic is that the fact that the woman was drinking is often used as an excuse to dismiss a report of rape. While recognizing the existence of many forms of rape, I'm going to default to male on female rape at this time as it's the most prevalent.

Rape Culture

Consider alcohol as something like the slutty outfit: it's an excuse to not take a woman seriously when she reports a rape. Why? Because there is a persistent belief that women will have drunken sex, regret it, then "cry" rape.

Let's kill this thought dead. When feminists discuss alcohol and rape, they are not referring to that scenario because that is not rape.

Additionally, as far as I can see, there is not a large number of women doing this. There are, however, a large number of women who have been raped while alcohol was involved who are not being helped because they are being categorized as "drunken sluts" with regrets.

I really can't stress this enough: Drunken sex with regrets? Not the topic of discussion. Rape with a side of alcohol? Absolutely the topic of discussion.

Labels

For some reason, though, discussions of this devolve into attempts to categorize what "counts" as rape and what doesn't. What's the tipping point between "drunken sex with regrets" and "rape"? This becomes almost something of a game and usually ends up going to more and more bizarre and hyperbolic places (What if a woman had one tiny drop of alcohol, stripped off her clothing and offered herself up to every man in the bar, then she chugged down a couple more beers, got sleepy while she was being fucked, then woke up the next morning and "decided" she was raped?).

Decisions

That gets to the heart of the issue. Who "decides" whether an encounter is rape? In these discussions, the men often react with an almost palpable fear that they will be "trapped" and accidentally engage in what they think to be a drunken one night stand, but then have the woman turn around and accuse them of rape. What's a man to do if he just wants sex?

Remember what I said above? Drunk rape looks a lot like sober rape. If you don't trust yourself on that, wait till everyone's sober to do anything.

Because here's the thing, there's no judge waiting outside the bedroom to stamp a CONSENSUAL label on your experience. So these hypothetical "what if" examples are irrelevant. They can be answered fairly simply: Did everybody consent? If the answer is "no", then it was rape.

That's too easy

Yeah. People make it difficult.

Ah, I see some common comments from these discussions are coming out to play.

What if a man and a woman get drunk and have sex. Who raped who?

Invalid question. There's no indication that a rape occurred if they "got drunk and had sex".

Fine. What if the man says she raped him cause he was too drunk to consent?

Then I'd assume he's being sincere when he says he didn't consent, so it's reasonable to believe that she raped him.

So every time a drunk person has sex, they're being raped?

No. Every time a drunk person has sex, they have sex. They're raped when someone rapes them. It's not the same thing.

If someone steps forward and says they didn't give consent and that they were raped, yes, I'm going to believe them. Until that happens, I'm generally not one to play the Sex Judge.

Okay, we have another line of questioning coming in.

If a person drinks and gets behind the wheel of a car, they're held responsible if they hit someone. But a woman who drinks and has sex isn't responsible for anything! Why does a man get blamed?

There's a whole bunch of conflicting statements going on here. Let's look at the second sentence first: A woman who drinks and has sex isn't responsible for anything. Well, yes. A woman is allowed to drink and have sex.

The second sex infers that this is, again, a case of a person conflating drunk sex with rape. A man gets "blamed" for sex a woman had. And this is somehow relevant to someone drinking while driving.

This is a nice, convoluted way to chastise women for not being "responsible". In some cases, I've seen people call for women to not be allowed to drink altogether since they can't do so responsibly.

Yes, woman speaking up about rape is being irresponsible. Because in a lot of people's mind, this means that a woman regretted drunk sex and is covering her ass. Like the person driving, she should just admit she made a poor choice (having sex) while drinking.

This is dumb, folks.

Again, the idea that large numbers of women are "crying" rape for regretted sex isn't substantiated by any empirical evidence. So let's discard that claim as nonsense until I get some valid numbers on it, okay?

So we're talking about actual rape. Yes. Rape. A woman who didn't, at the time, consent to what was done to her. This isn't like a woman driving while drunk. This is a woman getting hit by a drunk driver.

Oh, handy, this leads to our next question:

People do crazy things when drunk. You can't hold someone accountable for a misunderstanding that occurred while they were plastered.

We should excuse rapists because they were drunk at the time.

This doesn't work for murderers or vandals or thieves or anything else. It shouldn't work for rape. Rape isn't a "misunderstanding". If you aren't completely certain that you have the other person's consent before sex, then you are failing in your responsibility to be a decent human being. You are setting yourself up to become a rapist. There'll be no tears from me when you're caught at it.

What about the people that say that it's always rape if a woman's been drinking?

I don't know these people. Oh, I'm sure they're out there. If you looked, you could probably dig up a handful to throw at me. They're not the norm, though. Not in the mainstream and not in feminism.

What about when a woman doesn't remember the night before, but can tell she had sex so she assumes it was rape?

I'd call that a reasonable assumption. She could well have been roofied or she could have just drank to the point of blacking out. If she's drinking that much that, then her ability to consent is seriously compromised. Some women might wake up the next morning, assume they had drunk sex, and go on about their day. Others will assume they were raped. For the former, they're able to judge themselves as being able to consent even when that drunk. For the latter, they know that they would not consent to sex and that someone likely took advantage of their inebriated state.

What's that? Different people have different tolerances? Different abilities to consent while drinking? Oh noes! There's no one size fits all answer! *flails*

I sure hope you read the post I linked to earlier, because I'm gonna refer to it now: The best judge of whether consent was given is the person whose consent is in question. In other words, a woman who believes she didn't consent...didn't consent. If she doesn't remember what happened the night before, and she knows she wouldn't have been able to consent in that state, then she didn't consent. If she doesn't remember what happened the night before, but she knows she would have been completely fine consenting in that state, then she may well have consented.

Yeah, that's tricky. Yeah, it's gonna vary by person. People have different comfort levels with sex. They have different boundaries. It happens.

But I know that most guys' immediate thought is, "Well, how can I ever tell if the girl really wants it or not?" Let me indulge this and, again, point out that waiting till a person is sober to fuck them? Probably the best thing you can do if you have reservations.

That's not fun

It can be if you make it.

Look, folks, sex - even casual sex - isn't a handshake. It's not something you accidentally get yourself into, either. When you're having sex with a relative stranger, it can be very tricky. You don't have any standard with which to compare their behavior as you don't know them. You don't know how well they hold their alcohol. But everybody absolutely has a responsibility to know a person well enough to gauge whether their consent is enthusiastic before having sex with them. This is something of a basic thing here. You may need a few months or weeks or days to get to that point. It's possible to do it in a night. It's possible to do so when alcohol is involved. But that will always be dependent on the individual person. If you're not sure, then don't have sex with them.

Yeah, but girls just know that sex is gonna happen when they go out drinking. They should expect it.

That's stupid.

No. Really. That's stupid. If you actually talk to women, you'd find that the majority of the times they go out drinking, sex is not on the agenda. It may not even be a possibility. Sometimes, believe it or not, they're just going out with their friends.

Alcohol does not necessarily lead to sex. Banish that thought from your mind because it's stupid and will lead you down a path of badness.

Okay, okay. So why do discussions of rape and alcohol always end up looking like the comments on this post?

Several factors:

One, there is the moral panic over women "acting like men". That is, drinking and having casual sex. People create a narrative wherein the naive young girl gets drunk, has sex, then regrets it then next morning when she finds out she's been used. To cover her shame, she then lashes out and accuses the man of rape.

This is a compelling narrative for our culture. It allows people to blame feminism to "encouraging" girls into behavior they're not suited for. It justifies restricting women's freedom under the guise of protecting them. And finally, it allows the real rape that's going on to be overshadowed by these supposed false rape accusations that are being thrown around. People like to try to ignore actual rape. They'll take any out they're given.

So this cultural narrative is in people's head whenever the topic of rape and alcohol meet. They think that this is what's meant by the topic. Given that this isn't what feminists are attempting to discuss - nor does it reflect reality - an inevitable mass of miscommunication results. Instead of worrying about rape, men worry about not falling "victim" to the naive girl who would cry rape against him. With that, the conversation gets derailed amidst straw men arguments against the idea that all drunken sex is rape.

There are a lot of unsubstantiated assumptions, a lot of backlash against feminism, a good bit of misogyny, and a whole heaping of rape culture all tied together.

So....remind me, alcohol and rape...?

Looks like rape without the alcohol. Just with added alcohol. This adds another barrier to justice for the victim, as well, because the alcohol gives a great excuse to dismiss her.

Okay, I think I got it.

Good. I'll buy you a drink.


Comments

( 53 comments — Leave a comment )
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snowpuppies
Jul. 22nd, 2010 02:41 am (UTC)
Yup.

Rape is rape is rape. Doesn't matter if you put it in a funny hat and glasses with a mustache, it's still rape.

The only thing I would have anything to say about is drinking to the point of not being able to consent. IMHO, if you're so messed up you can't consent/black out/etc, then it's rape. And that's less about the woman than about the man who is having sex with someone who isn't even functioning at a basic, reasonable human level.

I work with teenage girls who have substance abuse and mental health issues and a large population of these have sexual trauma. I cannot count the number of girls who come in blaming themselves for being raped, saying "I shouldn't have gone to that party" or "I shouldn't have been drinking/using drugs". And while, yes, these things might not have been great ideas, I always ask them "did you go out planning to be raped?" The obvious answer is "no", and sometimes they laugh when I ask them this, but it's important to me to drive home the fact that just because you're drunk/high doesn't mean a man (or a woman, for that matter) has the right to do as he wishes with your body.

Still, that shame and guilt is so hard to break through, especially when society tells them how "bad" and "dirty" they are for "putting themselves in that situation".

And their entire lives are changed because of it.
gabrielleabelle
Jul. 22nd, 2010 02:52 am (UTC)
The only thing I would have anything to say about is drinking to the point of not being able to consent. IMHO, if you're so messed up you can't consent/black out/etc, then it's rape. And that's less about the woman than about the man who is having sex with someone who isn't even functioning at a basic, reasonable human level.

Word.

Still, that shame and guilt is so hard to break through, especially when society tells them how "bad" and "dirty" they are for "putting themselves in that situation".

And word again.

I admire the work you do. :)
(no subject) - snowpuppies - Jul. 22nd, 2010 02:54 am (UTC) - Expand
eowyn_315
Jul. 22nd, 2010 02:42 am (UTC)
You know you're really hot when you threaten spankings, right?

Because there is a persistent belief that women will have drunken sex, regret it, then "cry" rape.

This one always amuses me (in the "not at all funny" kind of way). Because obviously it's so much easier for women to endure scorn and mockery from their peers, not being believed by authorities, and having their reputations dragged through the mud than to admit they regret drunken sex.

Yeah, but girls just know that sex is gonna happen when they go out drinking. They should expect it.

Clearly I have been doing this "drinking" thing ALL WRONG. I HAD NO IDEA.
gabrielleabelle
Jul. 22nd, 2010 02:55 am (UTC)
You know you're really hot when you threaten spankings, right?

I've been told. *preens*

Because obviously it's so much easier for women to endure scorn and mockery from their peers, not being believed by authorities, and having their reputations dragged through the mud than to admit they regret drunken sex.

Indeed. Course, I find a lot of the moral panic over the so called "hook up culture" to be *eyeroll*-inducing. This particular convoluted twist is particularly vile, though.

Clearly I have been doing this "drinking" thing ALL WRONG. I HAD NO IDEA.

EVERY WOMAN PLANS TO GIVE A BLOW JOB PER BEER. TRUFAX!!!
(no subject) - eowyn_315 - Jul. 22nd, 2010 06:54 pm (UTC) - Expand
deird1
Jul. 22nd, 2010 02:46 am (UTC)
*standing ovation*
gabrielleabelle
Jul. 22nd, 2010 02:57 am (UTC)
:)
me_llamo_nic
Jul. 22nd, 2010 02:49 am (UTC)
You know what I have for this post?

So much word!

And what's that over there?

Some more word!

Well-said points, all of them. I particularly loved the following:

If you aren't completely certain that you have the other person's consent before sex, then you are failing in your responsibility to be a decent human being.

Oh noes! There's no one size fits all answer! *flails*

Look, folks, sex - even casual sex - isn't a handshake. It's not something you accidentally get yourself into, either. When you're having sex with a relative stranger, it can be very tricky. You don't have any standard with which to compare their behavior as you don't know them. You don't know how well they hold their alcohol. But everybody absolutely has a responsibility to know a person well enough to gauge whether their consent is enthusiastic before having sex with them. This is something of a basic thing here. You may need a few months or weeks or days to get to that point. It's possible to do it in a night. It's possible to do so when alcohol is involved. But that will always be dependent on the individual person. If you're not sure, then don't have sex with them.


I really have nothing to add. (Except that you really need to watch Veronica Mars if you haven't gotten to it yet. ...And yes that was relevant to the post.)

Hang on, I've got one more thing...

Some more WORD!
gabrielleabelle
Jul. 22nd, 2010 02:57 am (UTC)
*gives you kitty*

I attempted to watch VM, but had trouble with the whole high school setting. It's a thing for me. I imagine I'll try it again sometime.
(no subject) - me_llamo_nic - Jul. 22nd, 2010 03:38 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - gabrielleabelle - Jul. 22nd, 2010 03:43 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - me_llamo_nic - Jul. 22nd, 2010 03:47 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - dipenates - Jul. 22nd, 2010 04:31 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - eowyn_315 - Jul. 22nd, 2010 07:11 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - dipenates - Jul. 22nd, 2010 07:30 pm (UTC) - Expand
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botias
Jul. 22nd, 2010 02:54 am (UTC)
I have a bias against people getting drunk. As a thought experiment that was useful for me, I changed the reason for the woman's incapacitation. I played 'let's pretend a woman is unable to consent and/or is particularly vulnerable because she's just been in an automobile accident'. Would it be OK for a guy to come along and rape her when she's dazed and barely conscious on the sidewalk? Would it somehow be less appalling if the guy happened to be really, really drunk? Would it become OK if the car accident was her fault? The answer to these questions is obviously the most huge and vehement 'NO' there is. The reason for a woman being incapacitated does not somehow effect the severity of crimes committed against them while they are in that state.
snowpuppies
Jul. 22nd, 2010 02:57 am (UTC)
Excellent thought experiment. I like your analogy - thanks for sharing.
(no subject) - gabrielleabelle - Jul. 22nd, 2010 03:10 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - slashmarks - Jul. 22nd, 2010 04:06 am (UTC) - Expand
kittyb90
Jul. 22nd, 2010 02:55 am (UTC)
Love this.
gabrielleabelle
Jul. 22nd, 2010 03:10 am (UTC)
:)
gingerwall
Jul. 22nd, 2010 03:42 am (UTC)
Looks like rape without the alcohol. Just with added alcohol.

Yes 100%. Thank you for clearly articulating what has been floating around in my head in a much poorer fashion.

Have I mentioned lately how much you have helped me deal with my personal experiences? No? Well, thank you.
gabrielleabelle
Jul. 22nd, 2010 03:50 am (UTC)
I spent a long time being dismayed at various discussions on the topic and trying to figure out how to articulate where everything's going wonky. I'm still not sure I did as well as I could have, but I'm glad it worked for you.

And I'm very glad to have helped you deal with your experiences. :)
cybertoothtiger
Jul. 22nd, 2010 04:46 am (UTC)
In one discussion I had about this (either with you or another flister, I can't remember. Maybe I was drunk!) there was much discussion of how the 'avoid drunk rape' messages are so often directed at women, telling us to be responsible and not drink to excess in the company of men. The other person asked where are the messages to men telling them not have sex with drunk women, or that they should make sure they didn't get so drunk themselves that they could tell when consent wasn't there.

Then I saw a Jimmy Stewart movie in which he refused to kiss a woman because she had been drinking, and a 'gentleman' doesn't take advantage of a woman who's been drinking. Maybe we need to bring back chivalry? Just some of it, of course. The part that says men have to control their behaviour. 'Course, that might only hold for the first time. If Mr. Tiger refused to have sex with me when I asked him to because I'd been drinking, I'd be pretty annoyed.

I don't know much about alcoholism, but does someone who blacks out when they drink immediately show signs of not being able to consent? Or is there a period where they're apparently just partying with everyone else, have sex, and then go on to drink more, which causes them to black out the whole evening? What I mean is, does the black out cover only the time frame when they would be incapacitated, or does it cover a wider window? This isn't mean to imply that if a woman can't remember sex it wasn't rape.

People do crazy things when drunk. You can't hold someone accountable for a misunderstanding that occurred while they were plastered.

This doesn't work for murderers or vandals or thieves or anything else. It shouldn't work for rape.


Um, that's not strictly true. There have been other crimes, including murder, where the judge did consider the fact that the perpetrator had been drinking or were high as a mitigating factor in their ability to form intent. First degree murder becomes manslaughter for example. Do we need different 'degrees' of rape? If we have different degrees of killing someone, perhaps it's not unreasonable? Does premeditated intent factor into rape trials, or is it always considered to be a last-minute decision for the rapist?
gabrielleabelle
Jul. 22nd, 2010 02:55 pm (UTC)
The other person asked where are the messages to men telling them not have sex with drunk women, or that they should make sure they didn't get so drunk themselves that they could tell when consent wasn't there.

Word. Somehow, the "solution" to rape seems to always be for women to curtail their life in some way.

I don't know much about alcoholism, but does someone who blacks out when they drink immediately show signs of not being able to consent?

It's different for each person, which is the tricky thing. In my experience, I've only had blackouts at points where I was too drunk to walk straight. And I think at that point, it's a fair bet to say I can't consent to much of anything.

Um, that's not strictly true. There have been other crimes, including murder, where the judge did consider the fact that the perpetrator had been drinking or were high as a mitigating factor in their ability to form intent.

That's getting into the law, which is a no-go for this post. :)

Speaking purely on the moral level.
pocochina
Jul. 22nd, 2010 05:11 am (UTC)
Really fantastic post. As always, of course.

The sheer disingenuousness of rape apologists never ceases to amaze me. Alcohol is magic! It is an all-purpose excuse for men, rendering them completely not responsible for their actions, and blanket consent for women! I should have known this, of course, I personally have my entire scotch and tequila collection imported from Hogsmeade. I THOUGHT IT WAS A COINCIDENCE!

The "he was drunk and didn't know better" excuse is patently, deliberately ignorant. Because that is not how rapists work. They are able to a) target someone who is physically or psychologically vulnerable or who has been drinking, b) isolate her, and then c) physically or psychologically, or both, overpower her in order to rape her. People who are drunk for purposes of this discussion are not capable of doing that.

And the "regret" situation is even worse. Even accepting that it were true - and given the vast number of even reported sexual assaults, it has probably happened once in a very long while, even though any good faith interrogation of the issue finds that it is extremely rare - people who throw that around never think of why women might regret sex; in fact, they're really invested in making sure that women regret consensual sex. If having had sex will be held against you in the event you are sexually assaulted? You're going to feel worse about it than you would if that weren't true. If it opens you up to social stigma, you're going to feel worse about it than you would if that weren't true. And yet I mysteriously never hear these people who are SO FUCKING CONCERNED about this mysterious PLAGUE OF WOMEN who take drastic measures once they regret sex do anything about reasons why women might potentially regret sex.
gabrielleabelle
Jul. 22nd, 2010 02:58 pm (UTC)
in fact, they're really invested in making sure that women regret consensual sex.

Good point. It's amazing the amount of slut-shaming that comes into play in these discussions. "She wasn't raped. She's just a drunken slut." They're creating the very attitude that would make a woman want to try to hide the fact that she had sex.

It's icky. And frustrating. It's all so very frustrating. *sigh*
bluemage55
Jul. 22nd, 2010 09:11 am (UTC)
"Because there is a persistent belief that women will have drunken sex, regret it, then "cry" rape.
...
Additionally, as far as I can see, there is not a large number of women doing this."


I've found that this is one of the biggest issues that people fail to understand. The media hypes it up a lot when a false rape allegation is revealed, so the general public developes the misconception that this happens frequently. In reality, the FBI has found the false reporting rate to be ~8% (http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/Cius_97/96CRIME/96crime2.pdf). Similar 8% and 9% numbers were found by British studies as well.

Why does the media hype it up then? Probably because it appeals to society's misogyny and rape culture. Society sucks. :/
gabrielleabelle
Jul. 22nd, 2010 03:01 pm (UTC)
Word.

But most people will bring up a friend of a friend who got falsely accused or they know someone who could have falsely accused them (but didn't) or they read that bogus Kanin study that concluded that 50% of reported rapes are false accusations (Never mind the methodology of that study is as unreliable as they come). Anything that reinforces to their mind that women lie. It's easier to believe that oodles of women lie than that oodles of men rape.
(no subject) - bluemage55 - Jul. 22nd, 2010 06:09 pm (UTC) - Expand
goldenusagi
Jul. 22nd, 2010 10:53 am (UTC)
Great post!
gabrielleabelle
Jul. 22nd, 2010 03:01 pm (UTC)
Thanks. :)
enigmaticblues
Jul. 22nd, 2010 01:51 pm (UTC)
If a person drinks and gets behind the wheel of a car, they're held responsible if they hit someone. But a woman who drinks and has sex isn't responsible for anything! Why does a man get blamed?

What kills me about this argument is that the person forgets that having sex and drinking is not a crime. In fact, neither having sex nor drinking is a crime, assuming everyone's of age. Drinking and driving is a crime, and for really, really good reasons. Having sex with someone without their consent is also a crime, for really, really good reasons.

We had a case here in Lincoln while I was working in the county attorney's office that dealt with this very thing. Halloween, girl goes to the bar with her friends, man buys her lots and lots of drinks, she's horribly drunk, he takes her home with him, and then he rapes her. We had a hung jury and a mistrial on the first trial, and while we wanted to try the case again, we knew it was going to be nearly impossible to get a conviction.

I could tell you a bunch of other things about that particular trial that would probably make your blood boil, but I'll let it go. It's a story as old as time, and it pisses me off every time I hear it.
gabrielleabelle
Jul. 22nd, 2010 03:02 pm (UTC)
What kills me about this argument is that the person forgets that having sex and drinking is not a crime. In fact, neither having sex nor drinking is a crime, assuming everyone's of age. Drinking and driving is a crime, and for really, really good reasons. Having sex with someone without their consent is also a crime, for really, really good reasons.

Exactly.

Halloween, girl goes to the bar with her friends, man buys her lots and lots of drinks, she's horribly drunk, he takes her home with him, and then he rapes her. We had a hung jury and a mistrial on the first trial, and while we wanted to try the case again, we knew it was going to be nearly impossible to get a conviction.

Ugh. And he was even deliberately getting her intoxicated! That's just...grrrr...
dragonflylady77
Jul. 22nd, 2010 02:12 pm (UTC)
WORD.

They're having a series of documentaries on my TV at the moment about a social experiment.

They have this girl (actress) in a bar and this guy (actor) spiking her drink when she's not looking and they look at whether people react and how long it takes them to react and found that people didn't react at all to the spiking of the girl's drink when said girl was wearing revealing clothes... In the one tonight, the actors were a waitress and the manager. O_o to hear people say the girl 'asked for it' because she was wearing a tight red dress. There was one customer however who just ripped into that manager guy for the way he was talking to the waitress and inappropriately touching her and left the restaurant. She said it didn't matter she didn't know the girl, or what the girl was wearing.

Gives me a bit of hope that there are some decent people out there, amongst all the liars and rape apologists...

*sigh*

Thinky post makes me think.
gabrielleabelle
Jul. 22nd, 2010 03:04 pm (UTC)
*sigh*

Most people are good people. But most people also buy into some poisonous rape myths. It's disheartening.
(no subject) - dragonflylady77 - Jul. 22nd, 2010 03:54 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - 45deg_toreality - Jul. 22nd, 2010 08:30 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - dragonflylady77 - Jul. 25th, 2010 12:02 pm (UTC) - Expand
ever_neutral
Jul. 22nd, 2010 02:59 pm (UTC)
I WORD this post.

Our society's propensity for victim-blaming never ceases to amaze me. I don't know if it stems from the dog-eat-dog nature of humans or an unwillingness to confront unsavoury truths about ourselves, but either way it's disheartening. And increases my desire to be a hermit.
gabrielleabelle
Jul. 22nd, 2010 03:04 pm (UTC)
Being a hermit is quite awesome. You get your own mountain and everything.
(no subject) - dragonflylady77 - Jul. 22nd, 2010 03:53 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lynnenne - Jul. 25th, 2010 02:58 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ever_neutral - Jul. 25th, 2010 08:10 am (UTC) - Expand
dipenates
Jul. 22nd, 2010 04:39 pm (UTC)
This is full of win.
gabrielleabelle
Jul. 23rd, 2010 03:02 am (UTC)
:)
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will57
gabrielleabelle
The One Who Isn't Chosen

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"We are shaped by our thoughts; we become what we think. When the mind is pure, joy follows like a shadow that never leaves."
- the Buddha
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