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The Unpopular Opinions Sanctuary Post

Late, but important, edit: Consider this a general trigger warning for the post, guys. Some unpopular opinions may be upsetting. Also, please note New Rule #9.

Folks, do you have opinions on canon that you think are wildly unpopular in your corner of fandom? Maybe you actually enjoyed the attempted rape scene in Seeing Red. Or you think the Willow/Xander clothing fluke was super-hot. Or you think the first season was the pinnacle of BtVS awesomeness and that it was all downhill from there.

Whatever your opinion, this is the post for you to declare it without fear of raised eyebrows or disagreement. Yep. This is the Unpopular Opinions Sanctuary Post!

The Rules:

1. One opinion per thread. This way, agreement with that opinion can be consolidated within individual threads. If you have more than one unpopular opinion, make different comment threads for each of them.

2. Before making a new comment thread about an unpopular opinion, check to see if anybody else has commented with that opinion or something similar. If such a thing exists, just comment in that thread rather than creating your own.

3. As #2 indicates, reply to opinions you agree with! Discuss and revel and frolic in the knowledge that you aren't alone. Do a happy dance!

4. If you see an opinion you disagree with, just move past it. Don't argue, don't comment to boggle, don't even make a good-natured comment saying you disagree. Just...leave it be. Scroll down. Find an opinion you do agree with or make your own.

5. If you fear fandom scorn, you're free to make anonymous comments.

6. This is for unpopular opinions about canon, not fandom. So if you think you're the only one who hates gabs with a fiery passion, you're gonna have to keep it to yourself on this one. This also applies to opinions about fanfic, fanfic tropes, fandom factions, actors, etc. Canon opinions only.

7. Unpopular opinions about the S8 comics are welcome, as are AtS opinions. All of the BtVS verse is wide open on this one.

8. No ragging on other fans. You can lament the unpopularity of your opinion, but don't go so far as to insult or put down the fans that may disagree when doing so. Example: "I think Clem is the true star of the show. Really, it was all about him. Anybody who thinks otherwise is just a stupidhead!" See that? Don't do that. Just stop before the last sentence.

This also means no implications or statements that other fans are delusional, naive, immature, shallow, or anything of the like. Just...don't say anything about other fans. It's not hard. You can do it!

9. New Rule! If your opinion involves the attempted rape scene of Seeing Red in any way, shape, or form, please include a warning in the comment subject line indicating as such.

What's the point?

Simple. Fandom is full of a diverse range of opinions and interpretations. Some are more popular than others. It can feel a bit stifling when you hold a minority opinion on something. This post is for you to air those opinions out without being put in a position to defend them or receive grief for them. What's more, you may find people who agree with you. It'll be fun! :)

Still not sure?

Follow my lead. The first couple comment threads will be by me with my oh-so-unpopular opinions.

Oh! Also, pimp this out if you'd like. It'd be nifty to get peeps from other parts of fandom involved.

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Holding Out for an Angel?

There've been a number of discussions on Angel lately, and I find myself intrigued despite my general antipathy towards thinking about the guy. So I decided to do up a poll. :)

I had some trouble with the wording, and even now I'm not entirely happy with it. There seems to be two fairly distinct views going around: Angel as Primarily On-the-Ball Hero and then the darker interpretation wherein Angel is not quite so heroic (despite his attempts to be). I've seen these same basic views of NFA as a conclusion to the series. It's hard to sum up these two views in a short word or phrase, though, so please forgive any awkward wording in the poll. Also, I recognize that these views aren't as binary as they appear, hence the 5-point scale.

While I know that these discussions came about in reaction to the comics, I don't care to have any comics discussion on this one. Please stick to the show and don't mention the comics in the comments.

What's your view on Angel's heroism? 1 = Competent Hero and Straight-up Champion; 5 = Ambiguous/Dark Hero Prone to Fucking Everything Up

Mean: 3.67 Median: 4 Std. Dev 0.99
1
1(0.8%)
2
13(10.1%)
3
46(35.7%)
4
36(27.9%)
5
33(25.6%)

Similar question, but apply it to Not Fade Away. What was the general gist of that episode? 1 = Heroic Last Stand of TRIUMPH; 5 = Compromised Morals and Descent Into Badness

Mean: 3.02 Median: 3 Std. Dev 1.18
1
13(10.3%)
2
29(23.0%)
3
45(35.7%)
4
21(16.7%)
5
18(14.3%)

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Self Scales: BtVS/AtS Characters Edition

Well, ever_neutral had the idea, and eowyn_315 came up with the design. I guess I'm just playing host and referee on this one.

Read the instructions before taking the poll or you will be met with the Spanking Icon of DOOM!

1. This is about selfishness/selflessness as a character trait. A 6 would mean that the character is neither particularly selfish or selfless. A 1 would mean that the character is as selfless as selfless can be. An 11 indicates that the character is selfishly selfish.

2. I know it can be difficult to assess characters who change a good deal over the series. Keep in mind, this isn't about individual incidents. It's about the core character and whether either selfishness or selflessness are key traits of theirs. As Giles says, "We all are who we are, no matter how much we may appear to have changed".

3. All the cast from both series included, plus Faith.

4. Have fun!

Come up with your own clever cut text. I"m tired.Collapse )

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Character Poll - For Writers

I'm bored. And I've been in the midst of an epic bout of writer's block with Influence because I've hit one of those times where I just can't get Spike's POV right. It happens.

So here's a poll for writers about characters and writing from their POV. I think it's pretty self-explanatory ("writing for" = writing from that character's viewpoint, either in first person or third person limited), so I won't go on with instructions. Have at it!

Fanfic writers! Click the cut!Collapse )

Where do your sympathies lie?

It's Friday. I feel like doing a poll.

I see often in fandom where a fan mentions that they lost sympathy for or turned off a character after Event X. So I thought it might be interesting to poll on this.

Just to explain the set-up, because I know some people might get confused, this isn't about a favorite character falling out of your graces. This is just about general positive or even neutral feelings towards a character and when they might have dried up. The first option is always "never gained my sympathy" for those characters you just never warmed up to. Then there'll be a list of seasons. Some people lose sympathy for a character based on the character's actions or possibly because of the writing. For whatever case, choose the season this occurs, if applicable. If Xander summoning Sweet in OMWF made you turn off Xander, choose "lost my sympathy in S6". Also, to give an example of how a fan could turn meh on a character even though the character didn't necessarily do anything, some fans were turned off of Cordelia's character in mid-AtS due to the writing. The final option is "never lost my sympathy". This should be obvious. :)

Also, let me cover a couple complications that may come up. If you were slow to warm up to a character but then you liked them till the end, you'd choose "never lost my sympathy". So if you were meh on, say, Tara but became a fan of hers in S6, then you would choose that option. If you lost sympathy for a character, but then got won back, you'd still mark the season you initially lost that sympathy. So if Xander's behavior at the beginning of S3 made you dislike him for a while, but you start to care about him again in S7, you'd still mark "lost sympathy in S3".

Also also, not counting the comics as I haven't read them and don't care. :)

Got it? Okay, let's poll!

All BtVS and AtS cast members be under hereCollapse )

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Being a Fan: AtS Edition

Ah, AtS is always an oversight for me. In my just-posted poll on being a fan, I asked about BtVS but not AtS. Here I ask about AtS.

Let me copy&paste the directions from the previous poll (with appropriate AtS substitutions):

So here's the question on this one: As a whole, did you like the narrative of AtS? Starting from the first moments of City of all the way to the end of Not Fade Away, did you dig it? Of course, everybody's gonna have some parts they disliked. That's natural. But does the good outweigh the bad so that you can sit back, look at all five seasons, and say, "Yeah. That was a good story"?

*Again, I don't read the comics so we're sticking to TV canon

Poll under a cut again!Collapse )

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Character Inventory for Fic Writers

Anybody else having trouble setting up comment notifications? It's not been working for me for the past week. So sorry if I comment and you reply and I take forever to see it again. I'm having to go and recheck manually right now. grumblegrumble

I was struck on my last poll about the lesbians of the show by a couple people saying they'd never written any of them. That made me think of doing a Grand Poll for writers to select who they have written from the series. True, it would be a very long poll. But it would be kinda fun to see how the popular characters are (or aren't).

So here goes, guys. Both BtVS and AtS. Regular cast and recurring or other noteworthy characters (I used my discretion on the recurring and noteworthy characters). BtVS characters are listed in roughly chronological order. AtS characters I had to Wikipedia so they're in a bit of mixed-up order. Doesn't matter anyway.

This poll is long and easy. Just check the characters that you've written for in fanfic.

And I'm sure I've forgotten some character(s). I nearly always do. So if you find it, check the final option and let me know so that I may properly flog myself.

Edit: Yep. I forgot Illyria. If you've written her, select the very last option. Whoops! Also: Clem, Willy, Ethan, and Olivia.

Have fun!

Character Inventory Poll below!Collapse )

Rare Thoughts on AtS

Just for the novelty.

1. I don't mind Connor like I think most people seem to. I mean, I wouldn't wanna be his friend or anything, and I don't fangirl him in any way. But I think he's an interesting character, and I feel sorry for him. I don't wanna huggle him, but I would like to give him a friendly cuff on the shoulder and hand him a beer.

2. I prefer S4 to S3. Why? Cause S3 has Holtz (boring), inane false prophecies (annoying), pregnant Darla (infuriating), and Fred at her most useless (gah). S4 has Faith, Angelus, Jasmine, and...well...Cordy goes off the rails, but I'm not saying I think it's the greatest thing EVER. I just prefer it to S3. But I'll take S2 over the both of them.

3. WHY DID THEY HAVE TO KILL LILAH OMG I LOVED HER SO MUCH!!!!!! *misses Lilah already*

4. The Wesley/Fred/Gunn triangle still provokes me into an angry rage of I DON'T CARE. I actually didn't mind Fred/Gunn this time around. Then I remember how that ends, and how it's like it didn't even happen at all because Wesley gets the prize Fred by the end. This makes me grumble.

5. Wesley's character is ruined for me because of the skeevy Fred stuff. I liked him up till S3. Then I hate him.

6. So my dream team of AtS cast members by S4 apparently is: Gunn, Lilah, Connor, and Lorne. Everybody else just annoys me. FAIL.

7. Finally, LILAH!!!! NO, REALLY, GUYS, WHY'D SHE HAVE TO DIE???? *flails in grief*

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Fred: Still Not Impressed

Alrighty, for those who wanted to see some AtS snarkage from me, here ya go. It's probably not gonna be a regular occurrence because, really, AtS doesn't inspire me to write much anyway. But watching Fredless again sparked a rant.

Cause...wow.

You know, I think I don't mind Fred. Cause I can see the basic concept behind her character. She's the ultimate damsel in distress who decides to turn her life around and try to stop being the damsel in distress. And, yeah, I can get behind that.

But...they just make it so damn hard for me to like her when they have the entire cast sitting in a room, moping about missing Fred, talking at length about how awesome and smart and transcendent she is, and how they all loved Fred and wish that she hadn't gone (Seriously, did that scene ever fucking end??). I mean...okay, Angel I can see. Cause a perpetual damsel in distress? Yeah, Angel's all over that. It's his thing. But, hell, Cordy? CORDY???

And then the cloying saccharine ending with Wesley et all nearly shedding tears at Fred's heroic return.

Okay, fuck it. When everybody in the show is trying to tell me that a particular character is the bestest person in the entire world, I feel the need to RESIST. Fuck if I know why.

And then, even with the nice concept behind her character, damned if I recall her actually doing anything for the rest of the season. Well, besides being the bone that Wesley and Gunn fight over (Cause that's what every woman aspires to!)

Then given Fred's ultimate end, I can't help but think that the entire point of her character is that the damsel in distress can't get herself out of being in distress and that, oh yeah, Angel sucks as a hero and can't always save her.

So I'm left just trying to enjoy her character (Because she is a character I would ordinarily, genuinely like) but I keep getting blindsided by the flashing neon signs the writers keep putting in there telling me to LIKE HER, which is way beyond fucking irritating.

And soon I'm going to lose my dear snarky Cordy, too. *whimper*

But I still have Lilah till S4!!! *clings to Lilah*

Better to light a candle than...

I'm tired and have midterms to study for (and fics to write...and S6 threw an irresistible plot bunny at me. *shakes fist at S6*), but I just wanted to throw a poll at you guys.

Honestly, I don't have much of an opinion on this one. It's regarding something I see a lot (People stating that AtS was more "mature" or "adult" or "dark" than BtVS), and I sometimes see people bring up interesting counterarguments to this. So I'd like to gauge opinions and make you guys discuss it for my enrichment.

Three questions, evaluating the series on the basis of being "mature", "adult", and "dark". I have no standard definition for these terms for you to use. Answer based on your own understanding as to what each term means.

And then discuss! I really can't stress this enough. I'm very tired and I have no opinion on this. I wanna kick back and watch you guys duke it out like the brilliant fans you are. Go. Entertain me while I'm studying.

Which series do you feel is more mature?

Buffy the Vampire Slayer
41(42.3%)
Angel the Series
30(30.9%)
Other/Not sure
26(26.8%)

Which series do you feel is more adult?

Buffy the Vampire Slayer
25(25.8%)
Angel the Series
57(58.8%)
Other/Not sure
15(15.5%)

Which series do you feel is more dark?

Buffy the Vampire Slayer
28(28.9%)
Angel the Series
48(49.5%)
Other/Not sure
21(21.6%)

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Okay, so Kate's this blonde chick with Daddy Issues who fights the forces of evil (of the mundane variety) as her job. And this dude, Angel, pops up and starts helping her out sometimes, often by leaving mysterious hints and disappearing suddenly. And she knows nothing about his past or who the hell he is.

And in Somnambulist she's all with the cross necklace wearing, and Angel's about to reveal some potentially incriminating info about his past and he repeatedly asks her if she trusts him. And way back in BtVS S2 (Lie to Me), Angel had a somewhat similar convo with Buffy, just with the variation that he asked if Buffy loved him (to which Buffy replied that she did, but she didn't trust him).

So Kate is trusting Angel, but not loving him. And Buffy loved him, but didn't trust him.

And then Buffy after Lie to Me wasn't ready to believe and accept the truth about Angel which led to the whole Angelus thing of later in the season. Kate, though, is and she does her research and she calls Angel out on his past and shit. Look at how completely puzzled Angel is when Kate tells him off when he visits her apartment. Total blindside. "But I said I was sorry!"

So...were the writers planning on an Angel/Kate romance at some point? Or am I just making up random parallels out of nothing (hey, it's happened)? And does anybody have links to insightful Kate meta? Cause...I'm a Kate fan and I don't see much about her in fandom.

I wouldn't have been thrilled with an Angel/Kate romance. Just curious if one was ever in the works, or if this was done to show a completely different type of relationship.

On an unrelated note, why did I never notice that Giles/Tony Head is left-handed?????

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The One Who Isn't Chosen

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