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Episode Poll: 5.07 Fool for Love

will51
Fool for Love! I'm so excited!

William! If some of these look familiar, it's because I've kinda done polls for this episode in the past. I'm a fan of recycling...but there's new people and maybe your opinion's changed! Also, new questions! Have at it! Seriously, I had to stop myself. I was coming up with far too many questions. It's not fair to the other episodes.

Let's do this!






1. After Buffy is stabbed by a vampire, Riley offers to patrol. Buffy insists that he take the Scoobies along with him. Reasonable?

Yes. Buffy just got almost-killed by a regular vamp. Strength in numbers is smart.
121(81.8%)
No. Riley can handle himself.
13(8.8%)
I have another answer.
5(3.4%)
Not sure.
9(6.1%)

2. So...Cecily?

Unreasonably rude to William.
86(58.1%)
Eh, William was probably being a creepy stalker guy. He deserved the smackdown.
24(16.2%)
I have another answer.
18(12.2%)
Not sure.
20(13.5%)

3. Did William actually go back and drive railroad spikes through those party-goers' heads after he was turned?

Well, yeah. That's how he got his name, right?
100(67.6%)
Nah. That was part of the joke about how he got his name
33(22.3%)
I have another answer
5(3.4%)
Not sure
10(6.8%)

4. So did Drusilla actually use her super-seer sense to realize how fantastic Spike would be when she turned William?

Yep. Hence the whole talking about his greatness and effulgence and such
89(59.7%)
Nah, Darla showed that she would have done that to the first person she saw. She wanted a playmate.
36(24.2%)
I have another answer
10(6.7%)
Not sure
14(9.4%)

5. Do all Slayers have a death wish?

Yes
56(38.4%)
No
40(27.4%)
I have another answer
17(11.6%)
Not sure
33(22.6%)

6. Does Buffy have a death wish?

Yes
17(11.4%)
Sometimes
109(73.2%)
No
15(10.1%)
Not sure
8(5.4%)

7. Does Buffy want to dance?

Yes, of course!
30(20.7%)
Maybe a little, though she wouldn't admit it
99(68.3%)
No way.
7(4.8%)
Not sure
9(6.2%)

8. Buffy shoved Spike to the ground, threw money at him, then gave him the ultimate put down.

Wow. That's mean.
55(37.4%)
Nah, Spike was being a jerk. She had reason.
62(42.2%)
I have another answer.
18(12.2%)
Not sure.
12(8.2%)

9. The Chinese Slayer or the Subway Slayer?

Chinese Slayer
38(26.2%)
Subway Slayer (Nikki Wood)
107(73.8%)

10. If Buffy hadn't been crying - and assuming his chip wouldn't disable him - would Spike have shot and killed Buffy?

Yes
16(10.8%)
No
86(58.1%)
Not sure.
46(31.1%)

11. Did Spike tell Buffy the truth about his past as a bloody awful poet and his rejection by Cecily?

Yes
23(15.4%)
No
112(75.2%)
Not sure
14(9.4%)

12. Which flashback did you like best?

William getting turned by Drusilla
24(16.3%)
William - Spike - learning about the Slayer from Angelus
16(10.9%)
Spike killing his first Slayer
18(12.2%)
Spike killing his second Slayer
76(51.7%)
Drusilla getting caught cheating on Spike
13(8.8%)

13. Pretend you're a movie reviewer and give this episode a star rating:

***** (Five stars)
119(82.6%)
**** (Four stars)
23(16.0%)
*** (Three stars)
2(1.4%)
** (Two stars)
0(0.0%)
* (One star)
0(0.0%)


Comments

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upupa_epops
Feb. 7th, 2012 10:20 pm (UTC)
Buffy sending Riley with the Scoobies is definitely right, but not because she was stabbed. The thing is, Riley was trained mostly to teamwork, so he would probably be more efficient with a group. No reason for him to play lone ranger now.

Spike had to flee from London pretty soon after he was turned, so I guess the spikes did happen, but to other people.

Well, shoving Spike to the ground WAS mean, but I would'nt exactly say that I disapprove ;).

Making me choose my favorite flashback is just cruel :(.
lynnenne
Feb. 7th, 2012 10:29 pm (UTC)
Making me choose my favorite flashback is just cruel.

I KNOW, RIGHT? They're all so awesome! I picked the subway scene only because the editing is so brilliant.
(no subject) - gabrielleabelle - Feb. 7th, 2012 10:33 pm (UTC) - Expand
beer_good_foamy
Feb. 7th, 2012 10:29 pm (UTC)
Fool for love! \o/

1. Well, yeah. Safety in numbers. Buffy only made it through this episode because she had backup. (Incidentally, one of the everything I've always loved about this episode: Buffy outright saying that he was just a regular vamp who got lucky - her job isn't just about killing time until the apocalypse, she's out there actually risking her life on a day-to-day basis.)

2. He was being creepy, she was being snooty. They deserved each other.

3. I think it works either way, tbh. Another of the everything I love about this episode: it's not about what happens, but what we remember happening.

4. Kind of? Drusilla can figure out a lot about people. She may not have seen it in any detail, but spend 30 seconds with William and I have a feeling you could tell a lot about what sort of vampire he'd be even without ESP.

5, 6. No. Depends on your definition of death wish, though; IMO, the interesting part of Spike's speech here isn't the conclusion but the argument:

Every day you wake up, it's the same bloody question that haunts you: is today the day I die? Death is on your heels, baby, and sooner or later it's gonna catch you. And part of you wants it... not only to stop the fear and uncertainty, but because you're just a little bit in love with it. Death is your art. You make it with your hands, day after day. That final gasp. That look of peace. Part of you is desperate to know: What's it like? Where does it lead you?

A Slayer, especially an effective, long-lived one, will see a LOT of death. Will be good at dealing it out. Will, naturally, want to understand it - not just the killing, but death itself. Especially since they need to risk their lives every day. Does that mean they want to die? No. But every hero story for a few thousand years now has been about transcending death. To do that, you must face it.

7. Spike's speech has an awful lot of layers, doesn't it?

8. Spike just spent a whole evening describing how he loves killing Slayers and how he looks forward to killing her. What's she supposed to do?

9. Love'em both. But Nikki gets it because of the way the scene intercuts with present day.

10. Probably not.

11. Hell no.

12. CBGB!Spike FTW. But a little bit of love for the poor chaos demon. Slime and antlers!

13. Best episode of the whole series. 5 by 5.
gabrielleabelle
Feb. 8th, 2012 03:38 am (UTC)
1. *nods*

2. Cecily/William? Wecily?

A Slayer, especially an effective, long-lived one, will see a LOT of death. Will be good at dealing it out. Will, naturally, want to understand it - not just the killing, but death itself. Especially since they need to risk their lives every day. Does that mean they want to die? No. But every hero story for a few thousand years now has been about transcending death. To do that, you must face it.

A helping of word to all that.

9. I chose the Chinese Slayer cause of the bad-ass sword work. I could easily have gone with Nikki. :)
(no subject) - local_max - Feb. 8th, 2012 05:59 pm (UTC) - Expand
kikimay
Feb. 7th, 2012 10:50 pm (UTC)
FAVORITE EPISODE EVER!!1!
I've been waiting for this poll. Let's explain.

1 I have another answer. Well, really I don't. I don't understand how Cordelia, back in Graduation Day, stakes a vampire and then Riley super-soldier can't. I understand that a slayer can't fail once and I do believe that generally the risult of a fight depends on various circumstances, but still, this thing isn't clear enough.

2 We didn't see very much of William's story to know if he was a stalker or not. I believe that, probably, he was pretty obsessive but in a non-stalker way. It seems to me that William was very shy and that was the first time he truly reveals his feelings for Cecily. She was pretty rude. But I still don't blame her much.

3 Yes!

4 Yes, she saw something about him.

5 I went for "yes", after all the slayers are deeply connected to death and violence, so it's very easy to develop a death wish. That doesn't mean that every slayer *actually* wants to die.

6 Yes, she does. And, again, that doesn't mean suicide in every possibile situation, but I think that her depression is somehow a natural result of her death wish.

7 Maybe a little, though she wouldn't admit it.

8 She had her reason. After all he was talking about her death and maybe, yes, he pushes a botton, but still it's comprensibile her reaction.

9 Nikki, she was more pragmatic in the fight.

12 I have to chose Spike VS chinese slayer, because it was a great flashback and Spike with those pants and hair his so. damn. sexy. I know, he's sexy in the subway too, possibly more! I really want to be equal. He's sexy in ALL THE VERSION.
eowyn_315
Feb. 8th, 2012 03:36 am (UTC)
I don't understand how Cordelia, back in Graduation Day, stakes a vampire and then Riley super-soldier can't.

Yeah, the show is wildly inconsistent about the level of skill it takes to slay a vampire. The Scoobies especially - if you only watched this episode, you'd think they were incompetent goofballs, but they're all pretty experienced at this point. So yeah, whether or not Riley can patrol by himself really depends on which scene it's based on, lol.

Though, in fairness, Buffy DID just almost get killed herself, so I can understand her being more cautious about sending a non-Slayer (even Riley) out by himself than she might be otherwise.
(no subject) - gabrielleabelle - Feb. 8th, 2012 03:39 am (UTC) - Expand
rebcake
Feb. 7th, 2012 11:14 pm (UTC)
I voted for the subway scene as my favorite, because it's SO exciting and interesting, but the Chaos Demon scene is a very close second. The lulz! The slime! The total normalcy of the breakup! The hoof-kiss! *happy sigh*

Also wanted to say that I thought both Cecily and Buffy were unreasonably mean, but that's because it's always distasteful to me when the person in the position of power uses it to hurt or humiliate someone, even if that someone has flaws. Cecily could have said what women have said for ages: It's very flattering but I'm afraid it wouldn't work out." And Buffy specifically asked for the unvarnished truth. When he gives it, it's unfair of her to turn on him.

Edited at 2012-02-07 11:30 pm (UTC)
boot_the_grime
Feb. 7th, 2012 11:41 pm (UTC)
What power did Buffy have over Spike, from her POV, that she used in that scene to humiliate him? Yes, she could have beaten him up and couldn't defend himself because of the chip, but she didn't do that... so?
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ever_neutral
Feb. 7th, 2012 11:30 pm (UTC)
3. LOL, I like to think he did.

4. Heh, a bit of both?

5. I'd say it's more like the job really wears on a Slayer, and can lead to PTSD and other various illnesses… So, yes, but not in the grand melodramatic way Spike describes it.

11. No way.

13. FIVE FUCKING STARS.
gabrielleabelle
Feb. 8th, 2012 03:45 am (UTC)
5. BUT MELODRAMA!

Also, cool coat.

*loves on Spike*
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blackfrancine
Feb. 7th, 2012 11:46 pm (UTC)
1. I agree with upupa_epops. Also, yeah. It's just dangerous. Buffy frequently doesn't patrol by herself--why should Riley?

2. unreasonably rude. There's just something really cutting about the "beneath me" insult. Ruder than he deserved, even if he was being creepy (which I'm not convinced that he was).

3. Yes! Railroad spike=revenge for their mockery!

4. Yes! Effulgence!

5. Yes! Death wish! Well, that's my guess anyway. I think they likely don't start out with a death wish, but that the burden of being the lone fighter for good, living in secret, abandoning family and dreams and whatnot, combined with constantly seeing death play out at your own hands... after a while, it takes a toll, I bet.

6. Totally death wish. At this point, I think Spike's right, that she has too much to cling to in life, but the death wish is there under the surface--and when the things she clings to are stripped away, the death wish is laid bare.

7. Totally wants to dance. That's part of why she's so mean to Spike, here, I think. Pushing away from the attraction she feels.

8. Another answer--Buffy was really mean--just like Cecily. But with Buffy, I think she's actually lashing out at Spike because she's angry at herself. Angry because she's attracted to him. Angry because she can identify with him. Angry because he can see through her mask and understand her better than anyone ever has before--and what does that say about her, then? If this evil thing that KILLED her sister slayers knows her better than anyone else, what does that mean? If she and him are kindred spirits, then is SHE evil like he is? She's beneath the image she's created for herself. She's not the good Buffy that everyone thinks they know--she's the dark Buffy that only Spike knows. She hates that part of herself--the part that Spike has come to represent for her, so really, Buffy's talking to herself when she tells Spike he's beneath her. She's pushing that part of herself down, denying its existence, stomping on it to make sure it doesn't think it's allowed into the light.

It's awful, but it has way more to do with Buffy's feelings about Buffy than it does to do with her feelings about Spike.

9. Nikki! The subway scene is just so beautiful.

10. My guess is no.

11. No way, Jose. He's always been bad as far as Buffy knows (at this point, anyway).

12. Spike and Nikki! Best of all the flashbacks! Best best best!

13. FIVE BILLIONTY MUTHEREFFING STARS. ALL THE STARS. Easily one of the best episodes of the series.



Edited at 2012-02-07 11:47 pm (UTC)
rebcake
Feb. 8th, 2012 12:09 am (UTC)
Per your numbah 8: totes amaze! I agree most wholeheartedly. Shall we set a date?
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boot_the_grime
Feb. 7th, 2012 11:51 pm (UTC)
2. Cecily - at the time I'd say she was too rude with the "you're beneath me" comment - there are many better and less snotty ways to reject a guy - but now I have another answer. Cecily was always Halfrek, which I'm sure they didn't plan but that has to be the case due to later canonical facts. It becomes more understandable why she would want William to get the hell away from her and let her do her job. (Especially if she was indeed supposed to curse someone at the party, which isn't confirmed canon but was a storyline of an old comic.) Though she probably did mean the "beneath me" comment - the funny thing is that this revelation changes its meaning - she probably considered him beneath her simply because he was human. Judging by her behavior in Older and Far Away (recognizing him after all that time, flirty gesture), it doesn't seem that she was put off by him personally that much.

11 - No, he certainly didn't tell her what really happened. His whole story was about boasting how "bad" he always was, not what a dork he was as a human.
gabrielleabelle
Feb. 8th, 2012 03:47 am (UTC)
2. I always forget about the Halfrek connection. I guess cause I'm not too fond of that bit of retcon, so I just ignore it. Selective canon YAY! :)

11. Yep. *nods*
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flagless_piracy
Feb. 7th, 2012 11:57 pm (UTC)
Yay! Just what I need as a respite from flat cleaning, a poll. :)

1. Yes. If it weren't for Riley, Buffy would be dead. No way is she going to let anyone patrol on their own and risk something like that happening to them.

2. Another answer. She's horrible and rude, yes, but I don't think William would've really understood that he had no chance whatsoever had she been anything but horrible. I think he would've managed to delude himself that she was being coy or whatnot. Also, I like to think that, in the past, she had tried to let him down gently, but he just couldn't take a hint. Doesn't make her behaviour any less painful for William, but I think she was totally exasperated by the time of the party and decided to give him a very painful, very rude awakening.

3. Course he did. Maybe he offered them a choice of listening to his poetry or getting spiked through the head, and they still chose the spikes.

4. I'd like to think that she saw something in him.

5. No, cause generalisations - not good.

6. Sometimes. She's still not at that stage at the time of the episode, methinks.

7. Not sure. At this point, it's a no, but 'no way' was a bit too emphatic for the 'no' I had in mind.

8. With all the reasons he's given her, he got away lightly. The guy's just told her that she is gonna acquire a death wish, and that, when that happens, when she's at her most vulnerable, he'll find a way to kill her. I think that's a little bit worse than having his feelings hurt.

9. The subway slayer. She's got a dangerous vibe. The Chinese slayer's got a Karate Kid vibe.

10. Yes, and then he would've immediately regretted it.

11. No way. He's got an image to uphold. Besides, we learn here that what he was telling everybody about his breakup with Dru is completely different from what really happened. He also told Buffy that the subway slayer begged for her life, which she clearly didn't. He's self-mythologising like Robert Lowell on crack.

12. I can only tell you what my current fave flashback is, cause that changes all the time. I chose the last one, because the Chaos Demon blowing a kiss at Dru never fails to crack me up.

13. 5 stars. One of my faves.


Also, I find it a bit disturbing how this blonde, blue-eyed dude offed a Chinese woman and a black woman, and then fell in love with a white, blonde woman. Unfortunate implications. Though you'll probably cover that little thing in your feminist analysis later on. :)
gabrielleabelle
Feb. 8th, 2012 03:49 am (UTC)
3. lol!!! Brilliant.

8. *nods*

10. I can see that.

11. Totally. He's constructing the story of Spike.

Also, I find it a bit disturbing how this blonde, blue-eyed dude offed a Chinese woman and a black woman, and then fell in love with a white, blonde woman. Unfortunate implications. Though you'll probably cover that little thing in your feminist analysis later on. :)

Totally will! Something to look forward to! :)
pocochina
Feb. 7th, 2012 11:57 pm (UTC)
1. It always seemed a little off to me that the gang was portrayed as so useless on patrol when they'd been doing it for four years at this point? Riley, I like you and all, but don't sulk about your wounded masculinity so hard it distorts the script, k?

2. I think William was so swept up in his romantic vision that he'd have experienced any rejection as being that horrible. Though I love it in S7 when we find out she had to put him off because she was actually on the job.

4. I think Darla works pretty hard to show us she chose him on purpose? The wisest and bravest knight in all the land line, and then she perks up when he brushes into them, like she saw something in him.

8. As much as I love Spike, I'm hard put to think of something Buffy could dish out that he doesn't deserve at that point.

9. making us choose between Slayers, hmph. OFFENSE, THAT'S RUDE. But Nikki Wood by a hair, since we eventually learn more about her.

11. I really, really doubt he did the whole blow-by-blow. He might've mentioned that there was a girl who didn't love him, but I kind of see him skating past that part.

12. William getting turned! It tells us so much about Spike and Dru, and then I love how it gets drawn out in Darla.
gabrielleabelle
Feb. 8th, 2012 03:55 am (UTC)
1. lol!

12. YES! Scene solidarity!
(no subject) - flagless_piracy - Feb. 8th, 2012 06:45 pm (UTC) - Expand
devilscrayon
Feb. 8th, 2012 12:31 am (UTC)
2. I always read Cecily's "beneath me" comment pretty literally, like they were from different social classes. I agree also with the other comments that if she didn't say something very direct, William probably wouldn't have stopped pursuing her. I also doubt that, shy as William seems to be, that he would have had the nerve to stalk her.

FIVE STARS. One of my top 5 episodes of all time.
gabrielleabelle
Feb. 8th, 2012 03:55 am (UTC)
Yeah, I've heard that take on it. I can see it, though the show is...kinda wonky in regards to its depiction of Victorian England (especially between FFL and LMPTM). It's kinda hard to suss out which class William is supposed to be.
ladypeyton
Feb. 8th, 2012 12:49 am (UTC)
FFL! WHEEE! One of my very favorite episodes!

1. Yes. Riley was never a lone gunman he has always hunted in teams.

2. My kneejerk reaction is yes, but really I think it's more complicated than that. She obviously had no interest in William. He was obviously oblivious to that fact. I think the real answer is somewhere in the middle of the two.

3. Oh. Hell. Yes. He considered it "poetic" justice.

4. Yep.

5. Maybe not at first, but I think the 24/7/365 nature of the role gets to them.

6. Yep. Sometimes.

7. Oh hell yes she does

8. Mean. And form the way it's juxtaposed over his origin story we're meant to think it's mean.

9. Subway Slayer FTW!

10. Would he have shot the gun? Yes. Would he even possibly have injured her? Uh huh. But I doubt he'd have gone through with actually killing her.

11. No. He was spinning an "always been bad" yarn for her. His image is everything to him. Plus, Buffy isn't needlessly cruel. I highly doubt she'd have used the phrase "beneath me" if she knew its relevance.

12. Subway Slayer!!!

13. ***** Five stars!
gabrielleabelle
Feb. 8th, 2012 03:56 am (UTC)
3. Darn right he did!

11. This is true.
misco
Feb. 8th, 2012 01:36 am (UTC)
1. I think this is always a reasonable request. Riley was obviously more capable than the average Scoobie physically but fighting vampires is hard. Well, sometimes. If Buffy ended up getting wounded by her own stake then a guy who's far weaker than her has every chance of that occurring. I mean, I know the show's portrayal of vampire strength is hella inconsistent but for this episode we're obviously supposed to view your random run of the mill vamp as dangerously unpredictable.

2. I've never really made my mind up on the whole Cecily/Halfrek issue. But... I would probably have to say that either way she was just being horrid. William may have been irritating but there's no need to react like that.

3. I always took the inference to be true. I'm not entirely convinced the railroad spike thing is how he got his name though, after all we only ever hear about that from Giles in Season 2 right? And I'm loathe to trust those old Watcher books. ;)

4. It's hard to know what Drusilla sees and what she doesn't but I think it would be a case of extremely good luck if she had just chosen William at random. So for that reason I think she saw something in him. Plus, it just makes their story much more interesting overall.

5. Yes. I believe they do. Maybe not consciously but certainly underneath it all; I think it's such a hard and lonely life, certainly for the slayers of the past, that it would be difficult to not have a small part of themselves wishing for a release from the weight of responsibility they carry.

6. Again, yes. She has a support network which makes it easier for her to cope overall. But she's still alone in being all chosen. Aside from Kendra/Faith obv. Then again there's every chance that having the extra worry for her friends and family could make it worse. They are her greatest strength and her greatest weakness after all. I've always held the opinion that Buffy's sacrifice in The Gift was in some way fulfilling the prediction (statement?) Spike made in this episode.

7. I think it's proven that she does want to dance in Season 6. ;) There's also the fact that she never dusts Spike despite having ample opportunity to throughout the series.

8. It's totally uncalled for. Then again she had to open herself up to him by even requesting the information in the first place; so I think her treating him so badly is just because she feels badly about showing any vulnerability in front of him. It's like an admission of sorts, which is then followed through on when she lets him sit next to her on the steps at the end when she's crying. A situation that maybe wouldn't have occurred if they hadn't had the previous moment?

9. This is hard. I pick the Chinese girl because I feel so bad for her. Also, she reminds me of Kendra a little; so disciplined, so proper, so dedicated. I always wish we had learned more about her. Nikki is awesome too though! :)

10. I have no answer to this. I would like to think not, but that's just me being totally biased. There's no real reason why he wouldn't have gone through with it. In my head!canon I always treat this scene as the moment Spike truly understood how much he loved her, or at least this was the moment it actually became real for him.

11. No. Although I'm always interested to know what he actually did tell her.

12. Spike killing Nikki. It's one of the best scenes in the entire show. I've watched the episode stupid amounts of times and yet I'm always wowed. The final flashback with Dru is both awesome and revealing, however.

13. It could never be less that 5 stars. :D
gabrielleabelle
Feb. 8th, 2012 04:01 am (UTC)
3. This is true. As I recall, they were wrong about Spike's age, as well. :)

9. I also chose the Chinese Slayer! She needs more love.

10. That's my head!canon, too! Up to this point, he'd been resisting his feelings. We see that in Family when he goes to watch the demons kill her (but ends up helping her). He doesn't want to admit he's in love with Buffy. But finally, here, he gives in to his inner William and chooses to set aside the gun and fess up to the fact that he's...um...a fool for love? See what I did there? *shuffles off*
mcjulie
Feb. 8th, 2012 01:52 am (UTC)
Squee!!! My favorite Season 5 episode that isn't also really depressing!

1. Buffy is right to send Riley with people -- he's not a slayer, and we have historically seen that it takes a whole team of non-slayers to get the job done. I think his behavior here is a powerful illustration of his own emotional breakdown. He doesn't seem to know how to follow, and he's lost his passion for leadership.

I think the gang acting incompetent is meant to be a manifestation of that -- his inability to lead them -- rather than illustrating that they've all inexplicably forgotten how to kill vampires.

3. No, I think that's mythology. We see Spike spoiling for a fight a lot, but we never see him big into revenge or mass slaughter, so it just doesn't seem to fit his style of violence. He seems to like it more -- intimate. Which fits the theme, of course.

5-6. Slayers get combat fatigue. That's a big theme for the last three seasons. It's not that they get tired of life, but they get tired of fighting so hard to stay alive. The fight itself starts to lose meaning. And I love Spike's dialog quoted above -- I think he's putting into words for Buffy things she's been feeling, but not articulated to herself quite so clearly. Which is the role of a poet, after all.

8. She is being mean, but he asked for it. He's been taunting her all night.

9. LOVE the subway slayer scene. LOVE IT. Up there with the sword fight in Becoming as a favorite of the whole series, and the ending is sooooo stylish.

12. Drusilla turning Spike is not only my favorite flashback in this episode, it's my favorite vampire-turning scene pretty much ever. *SIGH*

(Much as I dig Buffy and Spike, I loved Spike and Drusilla first, and as a couple they will always have a special place in my heart.)

But all the flashbacks are great. Everything about this episode is great.
gabrielleabelle
Feb. 8th, 2012 04:02 am (UTC)
1. Oh, I like these thoughts!

5-6. I keep realizing how brilliant this episode is with each comment I read. :)

12. YES! *fist-bump*
menomegirl
Feb. 8th, 2012 02:04 am (UTC)
*headdesk*

Why oh why did I have to choose only ONE answer for each question?

This episode is on my top ten list. The only reason I didn't give it a solid 5 is because it discomfits me greatly while watching it; I happen to like Buffy/Riley. And this episode made me want Buffy/Spike too. At the time this aired, that bothered me. A LOT.

gabrielleabelle
Feb. 8th, 2012 04:04 am (UTC)
*points to icon*

:)
samsom
Feb. 8th, 2012 03:30 am (UTC)
Deep breath
Here goes:

1. Buffy strategizes as part of her slayer training, so if she thinks bringing the Scoobies along is a good idea, I have to go with that.

2. I have another answer. By the time we get to FFL, I can imagine that William has been making it known (through his poetry and other ways) that Cecily does it for him. She's not interested, and she's not obligated to be interested. So telling him what she told him was completely okay with me because sometimes a guy needs that absoluteness in a rejection in order to understand that there's no hope. Anything weaker was probably not going to do it.

3. I voted the second choice with that one. Everything else seemed to be conflated, so I figure that was too.

4. I think she knew when she looked at him, the way she told him he was made for more, with the burning fishes and such. She saw him, she probably even saw Chosen. But maybe not the context. :)

5. I think they do. It's a hard, short, brutal life with no way out except death in one form or another. It would be hard not to want to just stop after living that life for a length of time.

6. I think sometimes. Less so than previous slayers, probably more so in s6, but I think yes. She's a slayer, one in a long line, and I'd be willing to bet she's lost more than most slayers. Buffy's only human, the slayerness amps up the strength and skills but I don't think the Shadowmen made provisions for the girls' emotional well beings. So I'd be surprised if she never did.

7. I think she did. Hell yeah. There was a few seconds there, where she looked like she was extremely tempted, her lips parting just slightly, her eyes flickering. She wanted, all right.

8. First choice. Spike was tempting her to 'dance', and she was tempted. What she did, she did to wake both of them up to the facts of their situation. But I thought then, like I think now, that she humiliated him horribly and needlessly by throwing money on him and telling him he was beneath her. If Buffy were a man, and Spike a woman, regardless of their roles as vamp and slayer, there wouldn't be a question of how badly she treated him. In fact, Spike gets points taken from him by how horribly he treated Harmony and I never really saw the difference between both situations at different times. I have only seen it once, I can't watch it again. It was too hard for me to see her do that to Spike.

9. Don't make me choooooose!! Okay, I will. Chinese Slayer. It's because she's Asian, and I'm half Asian, and when she turned to Spike and asked him to tell her mother she was sorry, I completely and totally understood what she meant. Whatever the relationship between her and her mother, it's probably very close to the one I had with my mom - Slayer daughter of a traditional Chinese woman, American daughter of a traditional Thai woman....yeah, I identified a lot with that one little request of hers.

10. Nothing on this earth will ever make me believe Spike would have hurt Buffy. NOTHING.

11. No. He conflated and exaggerated like a mad thing. But he must have added some truth, because Buffy knew about the 'beneath me' comment AND his name being William.

12. Spike and the second Slayer. The dialogue, the cuts between past and present, the way he revealed Buffy's death wish, everything was amazing and brilliant and I didn't breath through that whole sequence, not once. That doesn't happen often.

13. Five stars. Of course five stars.
gabrielleabelle
Feb. 8th, 2012 04:05 am (UTC)
Re: Deep breath
9. *makes you choose* :)

Also, you made the correct choice. *nod*
Re: Deep breath - eowyn_315 - Feb. 8th, 2012 04:07 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Deep breath - samsom - Feb. 8th, 2012 04:21 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Deep breath - eowyn_315 - Feb. 8th, 2012 04:27 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Deep breath - samsom - Feb. 8th, 2012 04:32 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Deep breath - gabrielleabelle - Feb. 8th, 2012 04:27 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Deep breath - samsom - Feb. 8th, 2012 04:36 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Deep breath - rebcake - Feb. 8th, 2012 07:12 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Deep breath - rahirah - Feb. 8th, 2012 06:02 pm (UTC) - Expand
treadingthedark
Feb. 8th, 2012 05:09 am (UTC)

Wow! Considering this is my favorite episode of anything ever I mostly answered NOT SURE to most of the questions.
Huh!


The only things I'm sure about is that Dru saw Williams fabulous future with her super-seer sense, Buffy definitely wanted to dance, and five stars!

Everything else I was mostly unsure, and favorite slayer I went back and forth so much I'm not even sure what I ended up settling on!

I love both slayer flashbacks, both spectacular in completely different ways.

OH and no way would Spike have actually killed Buffy. And he didn't tell Buffy the humiliating details about Cecily.




gabrielleabelle
Feb. 8th, 2012 06:25 pm (UTC)
Well, five stars was the correct answer for the last question *side-eyes all the four star votes*
vampluvr1753
Feb. 8th, 2012 05:24 am (UTC)
2-He was, in her eyes, beneath her because Halfrek was a demon in 1880. This is similar to Anya at the beginning of The Wish. This is the only reasonable conclusion since she and Anya discuss being competitive during the Crimean War which they wouldn't have been if she weren't already a demon and the Crimean War was during the 1850's.

4-I say that she saw who he was in that moment. If she were really able to see him becoming the slayer of slayers, then she would have also seen him side with the slayer and fall in love with the slayer.

5-I put not sure 'cause I say yes and no. Each are at their core like Buffy and don't want to die, but there are also those moments where she wants to rest.
Of course if you want to be particularly morbid, you can take the death wish to be that moment in the fight when she gets behind and hopes that the vampire who's winning just kills her, but I don't think that that was what you meant.

7-Need to answer 'maybe a little but...' wouldn't put herself in the position to be hurt the way she was with Angel again. Spike has shown himself to Buffy to be on whatever side suits his survival which wouldn't make it unreasonable for her to believe, whether right or not, that Spike would if given the appropriate incentive stab her in the back.

9-Chinese, not sure if he'd have gotten her without the explosion assist.

10-If she's seen him coming and insulted him first, maybe, but if he'd just been able to watch her a moment, like in canon 'cause she was crying, nope.

11-In Spike's eyes Buffy already thinks very little of him and her knowing that would only give her more ammunition. Plus, there wouldn't be anything to stop her from telling people who dislike him more and would be even less quiet about it, i.e. Xander.

12-Tough question. I was having trouble choosing between getting turned and his first slayer and went with his first slayer. That one seems more Spike centric to me.

13-5 stars! I would give it more if I could jump from one Spike scene to the next without any Riley mucking it up.
treadingthedark
Feb. 8th, 2012 05:47 am (UTC)
"I would give it more if I could jump from one Spike scene to the next without any Riley mucking it up."
That is precisely how I always watch it, courtesy of my DVR! :)
(no subject) - kikimay - Feb. 8th, 2012 10:04 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - gabrielleabelle - Feb. 8th, 2012 06:27 pm (UTC) - Expand
zanthinegirl
Feb. 8th, 2012 05:53 am (UTC)
This episode easily makes my top 3 (along with Hush and Once More With Feelings) Depending on the day, it may make #1. Aside from the Spike parts it's just brilliantly cut and and gorgeously written. I'm not sure I can think on anything I'd change.

2) I'm not sure about Cecily. I mean she was rude, but I suspect poor William was always one of those guys that just couldn't take a hint. I don't remember he really joining in the cruel taunting; though that might just be my memory. Also, I think she already was Halfrek, and was on a mission.

11) What can I say? I've always been bad... Cut to William bothering the servants for a word that means "gleaming". Spike totally lied!

12) I like them all (I was torn by Drucilla) but the the fight with Nikki is just brilliantly cut back and forth between Sunnydale, 2000; and New York, 1977.

3) Of course he drove those railroad spike through their heads. The "William the Bloody" was a joke, but no chance he didn't make them regret it. And IIRC Giles told the scoobies about the event (though not by name) in season 2

10) I think he would probably have caved, but I'm not totally sure. On the other hand he couldn't even point a fake gun at Xander in season 4 without setting off his chip so...




gabrielleabelle
Feb. 8th, 2012 06:28 pm (UTC)
11. *nods*

3. He did!
me_llamo_nic
Feb. 8th, 2012 07:02 am (UTC)
6. There's a "sometimes" option AND a "not sure" option?!?!?

OH NOES!!! WHICH WAY DO I WAFFLE?!?!?!?!?!?
gabrielleabelle
Feb. 8th, 2012 06:28 pm (UTC)
*points to icon*
ckbasket
Feb. 8th, 2012 08:12 am (UTC)
#4: Drusilla saw all of him; past, present and future. Burning baby fish!
#10: Spike might have fired a shot, and hit her, but he would've scooped her up in an instant and run with maximum vampire speed to the ER.
#13: 5 stars, despite Riley. Everything with Spike/William is excellent.
gabrielleabelle
Feb. 8th, 2012 06:29 pm (UTC)
10. lol! Now I need fic. :)
arshes13
Feb. 8th, 2012 08:21 am (UTC)
3. In reading the comments, you see what happens to the party-goers right after William leaves.

8. I think that Buffy is just fighting the attraction she has for Spike (she's so repressed in that respect!).
gabrielleabelle
Feb. 8th, 2012 06:29 pm (UTC)
3. You do? How so?
(no subject) - arshes13 - Feb. 8th, 2012 10:32 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - gabrielleabelle - Feb. 8th, 2012 11:34 pm (UTC) - Expand
kd0206
Feb. 8th, 2012 12:46 pm (UTC)
This episode is so subtle, the writing and the acting, that I don't know how you put together any kind of poll! I didn't want to chose. William/Cecily? Yes. Drusilla/Darla? Yes. Ect.
gabrielleabelle
Feb. 8th, 2012 06:29 pm (UTC)
Hee! It is such a wonderful episode. :)
ms_scarletibis
Feb. 8th, 2012 01:19 pm (UTC)
1. Reasonable--she feels extra vulnerable, and if she can get blindsided...
2. Unreasonably rude. Could have simply said "no thank you."
3. Well yeah--it's how he got the name.
4. Yeah, she saw his potential. Darla and Angelus thought her choice was random, but that doesn't make them right. Dru even says in that flashback to Darla (I think, or on the Angel one...) that "I could be your mum someday."
5. No, not all. Some or most? Probably.
6. At that point in time, I don't think she does.
7. Yes. And it repulses her that she does :p
8. Went for the "wow, that's mean" portion. I just don't think that just because someone behaves a certain way that you have to go to their level and beyond to send them a message.
9. Nikki Wood. I don't like the way the actress in s7 played her, but I think that the character has a lot of potential for an interesting story. And yeah, that fight sequence was better.
10. Spike would have gone over there and "talked big," just like the Drusilla thing in "Crush." Drusilla had Buffy, Buffy didn't give him a crumb, and yet he still didn't let her get eaten by his ex.
11. Pfft, of course he didn't.
12. I chose William and Angelus just because I love watching the two of them on screen together.
gabrielleabelle
Feb. 8th, 2012 06:31 pm (UTC)
9. I was so disappointed that they switched actresses. Or rather, that they hired an actress since they just used a stuntwoman for FFL. But she was so GOOD!
(no subject) - misco - Feb. 8th, 2012 07:46 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - flagless_piracy - Feb. 8th, 2012 06:49 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ms_scarletibis - Feb. 10th, 2012 06:24 pm (UTC) - Expand
stormwreath
Feb. 8th, 2012 01:34 pm (UTC)
Cecily was entirely within her rights to give William the brush-off, but the "You're beneath me" comment was unreasonably rude. If she'd just wanted to make sure he got the message to stay away from her, then simply not inviting him to any more parties and being "not at home" if he tried to call would have done the job perfectly well. She's a respectable upper-class Victorian lady: shielding her from sexual attention is what her whole society is designed to do!

My one problem with this episode is that I don't think the directing of the two Slayer fights matched the dialogue. We're told that the Chinese Slayer was "all business" in contrast to Nikki - but as I saw it, Xin Rong was doing all sorts of unnecessarily flashy poses and acrobatics and waving her sword about trying to look impressive, while Nikki was just getting down and dirty and brawling. She was the one who was all business.
gabrielleabelle
Feb. 8th, 2012 06:32 pm (UTC)
Hmmmm...maybe Spike was talking about his own approach to the Slayers? The Chinese Slayer, he felt was "all business" (not speaking Chinese, after all), but he felt more inclined to get a bit playful and such with Nikki.
(no subject) - itsnotmymind - Feb. 8th, 2012 09:20 pm (UTC) - Expand
hello_spikey
Feb. 8th, 2012 04:11 pm (UTC)
My other answer for the Buffy pushing Spike down and throwing money at him is: YUM!!!

But I acknowledge I am special in getting turned on by that.

Ahem.

Dude - they weren't CALLED "railroad spikes" in England when Spike was alive. So the whole "how he got his name" is as inaccurate as everything else Giles read out load in his wee book. Anyway, it's too pat and cute. I choose to disbelieve it.
gabrielleabelle
Feb. 8th, 2012 06:32 pm (UTC)
lol!

Dude - they weren't CALLED "railroad spikes" in England when Spike was alive. So the whole "how he got his name" is as inaccurate as everything else Giles read out load in his wee book. Anyway, it's too pat and cute. I choose to disbelieve it.

Oh! What were they called?
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