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Fucking Analogies! How Do They Work?

will90
So, this is an argument I see that comes up a lot in discussions of rape and alcohol, and I feel the need to break it down:

But how is it any different from a drunk woman driving and then killing someone? Is she not responsible for her actions, then? Why is it any different when it's sex?


I always cringe when someone presents it, to be honest. Not only because it's offensive but because, frankly, it doesn't make a lick of sense.

So here. I'm gonna explain why. If you see someone using this argument in the midst of a heated debate about a woman who's been raped while drinking, feel free to hand them this link. If you've used this argument yourself, then I'm gonna save you from looking like a huge doofus. You're welcome.

An analogy works because it draws a comparison between two events in order to illustrate a particular point. In this case, the purpose of the analogy is to illustrate that women should take responsibility while drinking (there's a second point that I'm gonna hit near the end of this post, but this analogy often comes up in fuzzy contexts so I'm covering all angles).

As such, this analogy can be broken down into three comparable parts: the actor, the action, and the harmed party.

In the drunk driving example, the actor is the woman. The action is driving while drunk. The harmed party is the person who was killed as the result. The overall conclusion is that the action, driving while drunk, is dangerous and irresponsible because it can kill people.

In the drunk sex/rape example, the actor is the woman. The action is having sex while drunk. The harmed party is...well, that's the snag, isn't it? Who's being harmed when a woman has sex while drunk? I can only conclude that the people presenting this argument intend for the harmed party to be the guy she later accuses of raping her.

The problem here, accepting this scenario of a woman having sex while drunk and then accusing her partner of rape, is that the result is unrelated to the action. A woman having sex while drunk is not the cause of false rape accusations. False rape accusations are the result of those few women who lie about rape. This is not comparable to drunk driving leading to the death of someone in a car accident.

The more apt analogy would be a woman who drives while drunk, gets in an accident, and then lies to her insurance about it. The lying is the part that's harming someone, presumably the person she hit. That's not dependent on the driving drunk, however, as a person can easily lie to their insurance about an accident that occurred when they were completely sober. As such, even this more correct analogy fails in conveying the point that women should take responsibility while drinking. Instead, the point is that people who lie are douches. While a valuable lesson, that's completed unrelated to anything involving sex, alcohol, and/or rape.

There's also problem that the two compared actions are not morally equivalent. Having sex while drunk is not morally on par with driving while drunk. For one, having drunk sex isn't illegal. For another, it, in of itself, harms no one and does not significantly increase the risk of immediate harm to anyone. Drunk driving, on the other hand, is illegal and does come with a significant risk of harming another. Analogizing these two actions doesn't make any sense unless you are of a conservative moral viewpoint that has a problem with women either drinking or having sex (or both).

Let's take another tack with that analogy, though. Some will say it's not about responsibility but about ability to consent. If a woman is legally - and morally - liable for harm she causes when driving drunk, then she's also responsible for having drunk sex, therefore it cannot be rape.

This is all about state of mind while inebriated. It's also, frankly, about semantics. I've actually written an entire post about this very subject, and I hope you'll forgive me if I refer you out to that (it even addresses this very analogy). I'd also like to refer you to this post detailing research by David Lisak about 'predator theory': the revolutionary theory that those guys who 'accidentally' have sex with a woman who's too drunk to consent aren't actually doing so accidentally. The inebriation is a feature for them, not a bug.

So in conclusion, these two scenarios have no relation. It doesn't make sense. Stop saying it.

Comments

( 33 comments — Leave a comment )
angearia
Nov. 18th, 2011 03:39 am (UTC)
Word. Thanks for breaking it down.
gabrielleabelle
Nov. 18th, 2011 03:48 am (UTC)
I hate that it's necessary. :/
kwritten
Nov. 18th, 2011 07:01 am (UTC)
We're getting there... slowly but surely. Someday this kind of break-down won't be necessary: it will just be the common knowledge *notholdingmybreath*

(But then, when we get there, how will you show off your mad-skillz?)
gabrielleabelle
Nov. 18th, 2011 04:37 pm (UTC)
Hey! I have other mad-skillz! I'm quite good at alphabetizing!
samsom
Nov. 18th, 2011 03:48 am (UTC)
When you alluded to this in your earlier post, I wondered what could possibly have been said.......now I know.

She's basically asking for what happens BECAUSE she drank...did I get the gist of that argument?

Oh God. I hate people.
gabrielleabelle
Nov. 18th, 2011 03:51 am (UTC)
Yeah. It's actually an analogy that comes up a lot when people are arguing about rape and alcohol. Somehow, it's the first thing people think of when trying to argue as to why raping a drunk woman isn't actually rape. It's irksome.
agnes_bean
Nov. 18th, 2011 04:00 am (UTC)
I just --

People suck. That is all. How are these situations comparable?

Thank you for this wonderful post. Hopefully someone will learn something.

gabrielleabelle
Nov. 18th, 2011 04:39 pm (UTC)
I think the disconnect in these discussions usually come because when the phrase "raped while drunk" is uttered, some people hear "had sex while drunk and now regrets it". That causes all sorts of confusion. Also, the persistent belief that those feminazis believe that all drunk sex is rape. Damn those feminazis!
calixti
Nov. 18th, 2011 04:25 am (UTC)
I love this post and really hope people learn from it.
gabrielleabelle
Nov. 18th, 2011 04:40 pm (UTC)
I think I'm solidly preaching to the choir here, but still. It makes me feel better. :)
ever_neutral
Nov. 18th, 2011 04:41 am (UTC)
Amen. Thanks for this post.

::stabbity stab stab internet::
gabrielleabelle
Nov. 18th, 2011 04:41 pm (UTC)
Y'welcome. :)
artemis_ephesus
Nov. 18th, 2011 06:02 am (UTC)
These sorts of posts are genius. Just what I need for my starting-out-feminism. I shall learn this off by heart. *nods earnestly*

Maybe one on why it's offensive to say that all those women are just lying about being raped now? Need that one for discussions with my dad.
gabrielleabelle
Nov. 18th, 2011 04:42 pm (UTC)
Oog. I'm sorry you have to deal with that from your dad. Not cool. :/
rebcake
Nov. 18th, 2011 07:36 am (UTC)
Okay, when I saw your earlier post, I admit I was confused. Because when you rape someone when you're drunk, you're still responsible, just like when you hurt someone when you're driving drunk. Duh.

Now, I see the stupid. They take an analogy that works, and break it, and try to apply it to the injured party.

It's more like this: if you are legally walking on the sidewalk while intoxicated, and a driver jumps the curb and injures you, you shouldn't have been drinking in the first place. 'Cos, IDK, you could have leapt into the air and avoided the accident if you'd been sober? And a ninja? Whatever.
eowyn_315
Nov. 18th, 2011 04:03 pm (UTC)
Exactly.

Clearly, the moral here is that women should all be ninjas. Otherwise, it's their own fault when something happens to them.
norwie2010
Nov. 18th, 2011 04:04 pm (UTC)
Ninjas have weapons, right? I'm saying this for years...
eowyn_315
Nov. 18th, 2011 04:45 pm (UTC)
Ninjas CAN have weapons, sure. But I think one of the qualifying characteristics of ninjas is that they are capable of killing you without weapons at all. And without you ever knowing they're there. And possibly using only their thumbs.
mikeda
Nov. 20th, 2011 02:38 pm (UTC)
Although if she's a ninja, then she's in even more danger from the drivers, because the drivers won't realize she's there.

Sometimes ninja stealthiness is a drawback...

eowyn_315
Nov. 20th, 2011 05:56 pm (UTC)
But she'll be able to move with incredible speed and dexterity, therefore she can avoid being hit!

Or just throw nunchucks at your windshield. :)
angearia
Nov. 20th, 2011 10:40 pm (UTC)
But she'll be able to move with incredible speed and dexterity, therefore she can avoid being hit!

Photobucket
eowyn_315
Nov. 21st, 2011 12:00 am (UTC)
EXACTLY LIKE THAT!

(Seriously, how do you have a gif for EVERYTHING?)
angearia
Nov. 21st, 2011 12:10 am (UTC)
I mean, it's perfectly reasonable to expect someone to avoid getting hit by the car. It's not like it's hard to leap over cars like a ninja.

(TOO MUCH TUMBLR!)
gabrielleabelle
Nov. 18th, 2011 04:43 pm (UTC)
Now, I see the stupid. They take an analogy that works, and break it, and try to apply it to the injured party.

Bullseye.

Also, NINJA!
owenthurman
Nov. 19th, 2011 04:03 am (UTC)
Yeah, isn't the analogy like this:

"Imagine a man gets drunk and then drives around. He runs over and kills an old lady and two kids. But we don't hold him responsible for murder because he was just drunk. He can't be at fault. Now imagine he's drunk and rapes someone; you can't hold him responsible for that either!"
boot_the_grime
Nov. 18th, 2011 02:01 pm (UTC)
Talking about it here, though, is like preaching to the converted. The people who really should see your arguments are on that thread on BF.
gabrielleabelle
Nov. 18th, 2011 04:44 pm (UTC)
As noted, people are free to link to this when someone's being stupid. I honestly don't have the time or energy to engage with people over on BF (not to mention, I'd feel disingenuous jumping into a discussion on S9 when I don't read the comics).
boot_the_grime
Nov. 19th, 2011 12:42 am (UTC)
Good point. The discussion has been revived, and I've linked your post and your earlier post about Alcohol and rape.
gabrielleabelle
Nov. 19th, 2011 04:07 am (UTC)
Cheers! :)
penny_lane_42
Nov. 18th, 2011 04:19 pm (UTC)
YES.
gabrielleabelle
Nov. 18th, 2011 04:45 pm (UTC)
:)
hello_spikey
Nov. 18th, 2011 06:18 pm (UTC)
The man - drunk or not - is the one who is acting illegally and should take responsibility, like the drunk driver.

A more appropriate analogy would be if a drunk is walking down the sidewalk and hit by a car, is it their fault? (If they hadn't been drinking, they would have been more likely to jump out of the way!)

Ass. Hats.
Why is it never the man's responsibility to NOT RAPE?
gabrielleabelle
Nov. 18th, 2011 06:24 pm (UTC)
But...but...how would a guy ever get laid if he can't rape drunk chicks??? YOU'RE SO MEAN!!!!
( 33 comments — Leave a comment )

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