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Episode Poll: 4.15 This Year's Girl

Well, my first class was cancelled so I have some free time this morning. Let's get this poll up. :)

This Year's Girl, people. Faith!

As before, no image. My computer is still kaput.




1. I don't think I've ever asked this question before. Huh. So...Buffy or Faith?

Buffy
70(72.9%)
Faith
20(20.8%)
Kendra?
6(6.2%)

2. Upon receiving the news that Faith has woken up and beaten a girl up to steal her clothes, the Scoobies discuss their options of how to deal with her. At this point in time, what do you think the best option would be?

Hand her over to the police.
8(8.4%)
Hand her over to the Council.
12(12.6%)
Hand her over to the Initiative.
0(0.0%)
Hand her over to Angel.
18(18.9%)
Kill her.
1(1.1%)
Attempt to rehabilitate her.
32(33.7%)
Fight her until she concedes defeat.
3(3.2%)
Fight her until she's in another coma or is otherwise incapicatated for the long-term.
2(2.1%)
I have another idea!
1(1.1%)
Not sure
18(18.9%)

3. Looking back at events up till this episode, do you think Buffy had done everything that could be reasonably expected of her to reach out to Faith?

Yes. She tried to help her, but Faith kept falling farther.
34(36.6%)
She tried somewhat, but not as much as she could have.
49(52.7%)
Not at all. She was too immersed in her own stuff to help Faith out.
4(4.3%)
I have another answer.
3(3.2%)
Not sure
3(3.2%)

4. Okay. What about the other Scoobies? Let's just list off the characters, and you guys check the characters who tried their best to help Faith. Multiple choices are allowed.

Giles
11(5.1%)
Xander
53(24.7%)
Cordelia
0(0.0%)
Willow
1(0.5%)
Oz
0(0.0%)
Wesley
12(5.6%)
Angel
69(32.1%)
Joyce
23(10.7%)
The Mayor
45(20.9%)
You forgot someone!
1(0.5%)

5. In leaving Faith the body-switching device, was the Mayor attempting to help her redeem herself?

Yes. He knew that switching bodies with Buffy would eventually lead Faith to being redeemed and rejoining the Good side.
1(1.0%)
No. He meant for her to cause a lot of chaos.
45(46.9%)
No. He meant for her to go into hiding as Buffy.
45(46.9%)
I have another answer
2(2.1%)
Not sure
3(3.1%)

6. If given the opportunity, would Spike team up with Faith to kill the Scoobies?

Yes. He's still evil. And he does team up with Adam at the end of the season.
19(19.8%)
No. He only teams up with Adam cause Adam promises to take the chip out.
28(29.2%)
He might, but more because he'd be attracted to Faith. After all, "dark hair" and "criminally insane" is his type...
27(28.1%)
He'd try, but Faith wouldn't want to work with him.
14(14.6%)
Not sure
8(8.3%)

7. Pretend you're a movie reviewer and give this episode a star rating:

***** (Five stars)
15(16.3%)
**** (Four stars)
58(63.0%)
*** (Three stars)
19(20.7%)
** (Two stars)
0(0.0%)
* (One star)
0(0.0%)


Comments

( 52 comments — Leave a comment )
spuffy_noelle
Oct. 11th, 2011 02:07 pm (UTC)
The first question was hard. Buffy vs. Faith? Do I have to choose LOL I chose Buffy because I do like her better, but Faith (at certain times in the show) is completely BAMF and awesome.
gabrielleabelle
Oct. 11th, 2011 03:32 pm (UTC)
Yes, a choice is required. Tis an evil question that way. :)

I chose Buffy cause she's there more. This is a good reason. *nods*
alexeia_drae
Oct. 11th, 2011 02:48 pm (UTC)
I. Went with Kendra because she gets so little love.

2. Well, the police wouldn't stand a chance against her unless she went willingly, and the Council was easily overcome by Buffy in Faith's body. Initiative has dubious motives, so they're no good. You can't rehabilitate someone who doesn't want to be rehabilitated. Angel keeping her is problematic because he would not be able to watch her all of the time and as soon as the opportunity presented itself I'd say she'd have a good chance of escape. Fighting until she concedes defeat or in another coma is problematic as well because Faith might win.

I'd say the best option is to kill her. She's a threat to others and no jail can hold her. Yet I'm anti-death penalty so that doesn't sit well with me either. So I went with the wishy-washy option.

3. My gosh, what else was Buffy supposed to do? You can't change someone who doesn't want to change. You'll only get a lot of frustration for your efforts. Plus, Buffy has the all encompassing job of saving the world and fighting vampires. And she goes to high school. Why should she be responsible for reaching out and saving Faith on top of everything else?

4. Oops, didn't see the Mayor option!
gabrielleabelle
Oct. 11th, 2011 03:35 pm (UTC)
1. Poor Kendra. :(

2. Haha! That's my thought process!

I know rehabilitation is the popular option, but I don't think Faith was "there" yet in this episode. Buffy does give her the benefit of the doubt while strategizing with the Scoobies. There's only so much you can try to appeal to someone's better side when they're trying to kill you...and your mom.

3. Yeah. I think a lot of characters fell short with Faith, but I think Buffy did all that can reasonably be expected of an 18 year old girl who's juggling some enormous responsibilities. :/

4. That's a shame. That was the correct answer.
(no subject) - eowyn_315 - Oct. 11th, 2011 03:38 pm (UTC) - Expand
menomegirl
Oct. 11th, 2011 02:58 pm (UTC)
3.For the most part, I do think Buffy had done everything that could be reasonably expected of her to reach out to Faith. But (cause there's always one of those), I think that if Buffy had told Faith all about the Ted thing when Faith accidentally killed Allan Finch, it would have made a world of difference in how things turned out.

Edited at 2011-10-11 03:01 pm (UTC)
gabrielleabelle
Oct. 11th, 2011 03:36 pm (UTC)
3. It's possible.
eowyn_315
Oct. 11th, 2011 03:49 pm (UTC)
I think Buffy did just about all that could be expected of her, but I did go with the "somewhat" option because... well, she could've NOT tried to kill Faith in S3.
angearia
Oct. 11th, 2011 03:51 pm (UTC)
Ah, good point. I was thinking by the point that Faith was a villain trying to destroy Sunnydale that period wasn't the helping time.
(no subject) - eowyn_315 - Oct. 11th, 2011 04:02 pm (UTC) - Expand
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doublemeat
Oct. 11th, 2011 03:50 pm (UTC)
1. C'mon, now. I don't have a "WWFD" t-shirt.

2. I honestly don't know. Council? Screw them. Police? Can't contain her. Initiative? Hell no! Angel? Not his problem. Kill her? No-killing-humans rule. Rehabilitate her? There's no methadone for homicidal mania. Fight her? Until what? It's a question of the least bad option.

3. Buffy did more than enough.

4. This is a rare instance of me siding with Angel. The rest of the Scoobies, not so much (although it's arguable what they could/should have done).

5. No way. I don't think Wilkins understood the concept of redemption. He knew Faith couldn't survive as a hunted fugitive and was trying to give her a chance.

6. What would be in it for him? He's not delusional or stupid enough to think a long-term partnership would be possible.
gabrielleabelle
Oct. 11th, 2011 05:51 pm (UTC)
1. You have a WWBD shirt?

2. *nods*

4. I got all flaily and confused on this one so I just chose the Mayor cause he made her happy. *gets confused by her own poll questions*

6. Yeah, but he is delusional and stupid enough to court the Slayer in S5. I think Spike makes some not-smart choices sometimes. *pets him*
(no subject) - doublemeat - Oct. 11th, 2011 07:13 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - doublemeat - Oct. 11th, 2011 08:50 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - local_max - Oct. 12th, 2011 05:50 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - doublemeat - Oct. 12th, 2011 09:24 am (UTC) - Expand
angearia
Oct. 11th, 2011 03:50 pm (UTC)
THIS EPISODE IS EXXXXXCELLENT.

1. BUFFY! My girl forever. But Faith is one of my all-time favorites also -- she's in my top 3.

2. I think Buffy did a lot to reach out to Faith, but they have trouble communicating with each other. There's some things that put Faith off, like Buffy's not opening up about her past traumas with Angel -- which... well, I don't think Buffy had to open up about that. But Faith took it as a rejection. And when Buffy did try to reach out later, Faith pushed her away. So these two girls are just really bruised and hurt and keep missing opportunities. I think expecting Buffy to have done better would be expecting her to be perfect, so I think Buffy did the best she could have done. (Though, if Angel hadn't come back, I think Buffy would've been more able to help Faith.)

I don't think anyone else did their best to help Faith, though. Well, Wesley did his best based upon his knowledge and experience. One thing you can't fault Wes for is his efforts. Giles didn't do enough, though, and Willow and Xander weren't really there to offer any support. And Angel, before "Sanctuary," I don't think really helps Faith, either. There's this tendency with Angel to blow Faith's darkness out of proportion before she'd even done anything of the magnitude of his own crimes.

I think the Mayor was maybe hoping Faith would cause some mayhem, but he also genuinely wanted her to be safe. I imagine he came up with this plan while she was in a coma, so his concern was largely for her well-being. And from his POV, if Faith is safe, she'll probably be causing chaos somewhere, so it's a win-win for him. Plus, taking out Buffy is a way to get back at the person who presumably defeated him. It pays off in a lot of ways, all of which I think the Mayor would've considered.

I doubt Spike would actually team up with Faith to destroy the Scoobies. Not out of a sense of good will, but just because it's not fun plotting someone else's demise vicariously. He might team up with Faith to go kill people so he could have fresh blood, or he might team up with her if he thought she could help him get the chip out (which is unlikely), but I don't see him out to get the Scoobies. His threat to team up with her was also so lackluster and offhand that he didn't seem all that into it -- it was mostly for show. "Try to remember that I hate you all!" Well, Spike, the reason they have trouble remembering is that you're not really giving it your all.

FOUR STARS SOOO GOOD.

Edited at 2011-10-11 03:57 pm (UTC)
doublemeat
Oct. 11th, 2011 04:03 pm (UTC)
Try to remember that I hate you all!

What a great line. Spike is hilarious when he's on his I-am-too-the-Big-Bad kick in S4/S5.
(no subject) - gabrielleabelle - Oct. 11th, 2011 05:56 pm (UTC) - Expand
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pocochina
Oct. 11th, 2011 04:38 pm (UTC)
1. I love all the Slayers! I went with Kendra because she needed so little time to make me love her, but they are all <3

2. I' not sure there's anything they could have done after the coma but let it all play out. Maybe if Giles had some of his Cruciamentum drugs laying around and could dose her? But even then.

3. I do think Buffy put as much effort into helping Faith as could reasonably be expected, but I think she went about it all so, so wrong at every turn.

4. Wesley did the very best he could have under the circumstances, and was more focused on Faith herself than anyone around them was at the time. Joyce, I think, did the best she could with what she knew. And Xander, who I think I skipped accidentally, went way above and beyond.
ceciliaj
Oct. 11th, 2011 05:25 pm (UTC)
Ooooh your icon is pretty! Seconding the "I love all the slayers!" option :).
(no subject) - gabrielleabelle - Oct. 11th, 2011 05:57 pm (UTC) - Expand
kwritten
Oct. 11th, 2011 04:53 pm (UTC)
Faith is second only to Dawn in my heart. I know I *should* love the Buffster more... But I just don't.

I just rewatched S3 and it occurred to me that we don't really see Buffy reaching out to Faith that much. We see her talking to the Scoobies about reaching out, we see her defend Faith in public: when the Scoobs can see her, Buffy is very supportive, defensive of, and seems to care a lot about Faith... The thing is: Faith doesn't see this. It can get tiring, defending someone you care about to the world, standing between them and the outside... By the time you actually see them, you're exhausted and short-tempered. (On the other hand, pre-Mayor Faith does a lot of very good "BFF" things for Buffy, but no one sees them but the audience.) This = the downfall of their relationship. When alone, the connection here frayed by their mutual exhaustion. They fight for each other when the other can't see...
So... It's not that Buffy didn't do all she felt she could for Faith, but Faith didn't see all the "behind the scenes" work that B put in... If that makes sense.
If either had let their guard down in front of the other and showed affection in a different way, events would have played out so differently, I think. It's why I love their relationship - they are so similar it hurts.
gabrielleabelle
Oct. 11th, 2011 05:58 pm (UTC)
Eh, there's no imperative to love characters. Love who you love. It's all good. :)

Good points. Buffy and Faith just never work out.
local_max
Oct. 11th, 2011 06:11 pm (UTC)
So much I-shouldn't-lol-but-I-do at your options to 2. Yikes!

But yeah, one of the big problems of the series is WHAT DO YOU DO WITH A ROGUE SLAYER and it's like, I have no idea! I said attempt to rehabilitate her, but then after that...what else? I have no idea! They could lock her up in Oz' old cage temporarily, I suppose, if they tranq'd her. But that's still a temporary one. She's obviously too strong for the police and the Council can't be trusted.

I think Buffy tried hard, but not in the right way. Same for Xander, Wesley and Angel, but they did all try (I tickied them, and I would ticky Buffy also). But Buffy is the big tragedy, because she wanted to reach Faith but had none of the right language, understanding, etc., to do so.
blackfrancine
Oct. 11th, 2011 08:53 pm (UTC)
Yeah, I had a hard time answering the second question. I said "try to rehabilitate her"--but honestly, I don't know that that's the most practical plan. Like, I feel like they should have a multiple-prong approach. Rehabilitation along with Council intervention for backup or something? But the Council was just gonna kill Faith--so, yeah. They weren't the most cooperative bunch.

I guess I could've said "Not sure." I didn't see that option.
(no subject) - gabrielleabelle - Oct. 11th, 2011 11:47 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - doublemeat - Oct. 12th, 2011 09:55 am (UTC) - Expand
evangelin1202
Oct. 11th, 2011 06:54 pm (UTC)
I just wanna say that,

"These are innocent people."
"No such animal."

BEST.LINE.EVER!
gabrielleabelle
Oct. 11th, 2011 11:47 pm (UTC)
Not gonna lie, I've totally used that line in a non-ironic fashion.
upupa_epops
Oct. 11th, 2011 09:08 pm (UTC)
I feel that I need to explain one of my choices :). I ticked Wesley in Question 4, even though I think that he screwed up royally with Faith. Still, it wasn't due to lack of trying. He did his personal best with Faith, he was just so brainwashed by the Council he couldn't figure out what she actually needed. Had you asked about a person who had best results in helping Faith, Wesley would never make my list, but since the question was about trying one's best, well. Tried, he had. Failed, he did.
lynnenne
Oct. 11th, 2011 10:42 pm (UTC)
I just left pretty much this same comment. I should have read yours first. :)
(no subject) - gabrielleabelle - Oct. 11th, 2011 11:48 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ever_neutral - Oct. 12th, 2011 12:53 am (UTC) - Expand
lynnenne
Oct. 11th, 2011 10:41 pm (UTC)
I think Wesley did try to help Faith the best way he knew how. It's just that his experience at the time was so limited, he really didn't know what would work. He was much more help to her during the later seasons of Angel, after she'd checked herself into prison.
gabrielleabelle
Oct. 11th, 2011 11:48 pm (UTC)
*nods*
samsom
Oct. 12th, 2011 01:35 am (UTC)
I've only seen this episode a handful of times and none of them have been in the last two or three years, so it's a bit fuzzy around the edges. But I'll forebear.

1. Buffy. Faith is just too much of a bundle of need and energy and need, and Kendra is too docile. Buffy's just right. :)

2. I voted not sure. I could have said "attempt to rehabilitate her" but I think it would depend on how far Faith went in her rampage, if there was a "point of no return" for Buffy. If she hurt one of the Scoobies, killed too many civilians, was on the verge of killing civilians. I think it's one of those 'in the moment' decisions, and would depend on whether Buffy could make her blink or reach her or whatever.

3. She tried, showing concern for Faith at first, but there's always been this niggling frustration I've had that Buffy just gave up too easily, made or said the wrong (or not right) decisions too many times. Faith was naked at some points in her neediness, and Buffy's a pretty empathetic person at her core, so why all the 'misses' in trying to reach out to her? I just thought she could have tried harder.

4. It's astonishing, as I was going down the list of names, how many didn't try their best. I voted for Xander (for going to her on his own and TRYING to reach her), Angel, for actively trying to connect with her (and I think he would have succeeded if Wes hadn't pulled his Watcher act), and The Mayor. This guy was evil and yet he saw what she needed - attention and love and encouragement. And it seemed genuine. I think Richard Wilkins actually gave Faith the first unconditional love she's ever had. Too bad about that Giant-Snake-Taking-Over-The-World thing, though.

5. I think giving Faith that body-switching thing was The Mayor's way of trying to protect Faith and give her a way out if things went south. He was trying to ensure her safety by switching her with another person if he failed. That's such a parent thing to do.

6. I don't think so. I have no real explanation for this except he's not going to go against Buffy unless he thought he could get the chip out. And even then...

7. Two stars. I'm not as interested in Faith as I am in the others so while it was a good episode, it's not a grabber for me.

Edited at 2011-10-12 01:37 am (UTC)
gabrielleabelle
Oct. 12th, 2011 01:53 am (UTC)
2. Yeah. I think that's pretty much what the episode comes down to. Faith eventually attacks and tries to kill Joyce, so Buffy has to react.

3. Buffy gave up too easily? Even by this episode, Buffy's giving Faith the benefit of the doubt. Hell, at the end of Who Are You?, Buffy looks to be sympathetic to Faith (which is why her raging switcheroo in Sanctuary is so awkward). I think Buffy made some missteps in reaching Faith, but I can't say that she gave up too easily on her.

4. I get irked that nobody did anything to get Faith out of that crappy motel all through S3. Well, except the Mayor. Really, guys? A teen girl is living in a dive motel and that's cool with you? Okay.
vampluvr1753
Oct. 12th, 2011 03:18 am (UTC)
1-So long as we disavow her gravitation towards Riley, I choose Buffy.

2-I'd love for there to be so better options, but I couldn't think of any. I like her character too much to think that kill her is the best option, but the police, the Council, and the Initiative aren't currently options. While I understand the reasoning to turn her over to Angel, that's not something that anyone in Sunnydale is going to agree is the 'best option' so I can't go with that. I find this somewhat similar to 'rehabilitate her' from the Scoobies perspective and again can't pick it. She will NEVER concede defeat unless dead or unconscious so that's out. That left fight her until she's in a nother coma or is otherwise incapacitated... so that's what I thought was the 'best' option.

3-Maybe Buffy could have been less reactionary when the Mayor's assistant was killed, but she was reeling herself so wasn't able to recognize that much or what she said/did only served to puch Faith further away. Also, she could have been more inviting towards Faith, like asking her over for Christmas without her Mom's urging. That said, once she stabbed Faith in the gut, there was nothing that Buffy could do herself to convince Faith of anything. So I'm a wishy-washy no and yes.

4-Giles never acted as parental with Faith as he did with Buffy although he was told to 'look after her'.
Xander was as juvenile with Faith as he was with everyone during that time frame, so he got 'doing his best' every though it was pretty useless.
Cordelia was no different towards Faith than she when Buffy first showed up, so no trying there.
Willow was anti-Faith what with her being a friendship rival for Buffy and her deflowering Xander, so very little/no trying there.
Oz got a 'not doing best' simply 'cause he is participation was very dependent on Willow.
Wesley got a big no mostly for sending in the crew to capture her which epically failing.
Angel did try his best and whether or not it would have worked, his attempt(s) were whole-hearted.
While Joyce's initial attitude towards Faith may have been due to her desire for her to take over for Buffy, she was always motherly towards Faith and voiced genuine concerns. Sure, she never went to help Faith alone, that was certainly safer.
The mayor wasn't a good guy except where Faith was concerned. He did was he thought was best where she was concerned and acted much like the parent that she seemed to be yearning to have. Sure, he was evil and it caused her to further spiral, it was HIS best.
Can't think of anyone that you forgot... except Gwendolyn, but she only served to further separate Faith from the others and it certainly wasn't for Faith's benefit.

5-No, it seemed to me that he did this after she was put into the coma by Buffy, so I believe that this was so that she may destroy Buffy's life just as he believes that Buffy destroyed Faith's life. Maybe this falls under the 'cause a lot of chaos', but believe that the Mayor's intentions were more decisive than that.

6-Note sure, while yes, he'd be drawn to Faith's destructive side, if he already had the chip, he would certainly see her as one who would turn on him in an instant, being one who would do the same given the opportunity. That said, if he didn't have the chip, he may do just that with the intention of making her his third slayer when the opportunity presented itself.

7-This is one is incomplete without the next episode. Thus, by itself, I only gave it a 4, but if I were to rate this and the next episode together, they'd get a 5.

gabrielleabelle
Oct. 12th, 2011 08:22 pm (UTC)
1. rofl!

4. Oh yeah, Gwendolyn. Yeah, definitely not good for Faith.
zanthinegirl
Oct. 12th, 2011 03:36 am (UTC)
I'm kind of surprised by the answers to #2; so many people think he scoobies are responsible for rehabilitating Faith. I love Faith, but she had many chances to do the right thing, and kept choosing the wrong thing anyway. And while the deputy mayor was an accident she killed the vulcanlogist in cold blood, and tried really hard to kill Angel.

Also, Buffy, Xander, Willow and Cordelia are kids. Not responsible for Faith! I'm not sure who is, but the legal authorities seem like as good a place to start as any!
gabrielleabelle
Oct. 12th, 2011 08:24 pm (UTC)
I tend to agree. I think that, with #2, people are going for the nicest option. Cause, well, there aren't many good options for dealing with Faith at this point.
rebcake
Oct. 12th, 2011 03:45 am (UTC)
1, 3, 4. I get a bit of whiplash with the whole Buffy/Faith dynamic. Buffy goes from jealous (Look! Now she's getting along with my fries.) to ignoring to super besties to setting her up and then trying to kill her, ending up here with all the reasonable talk (where did that come from?) and some more fighting. Not to say that I blame Buffy for defending Joyce. I'm a Buffy gal, but I don't think she did right by Faith, overall. (This even continues in S8. *rends garments*)

However, Buffy's 17-18 years old and not getting it right, while all the supposedly upright adult citizens (Joyce, Giles, Wesley — I'm looking at you) completely blew it with Faith. Why wasn't Giles housing Faith for the 3 months of her residence that he was still employed by the Council, or Wesley when he took over? It's established in the first episode that it's not safe for her to live where she does. Mainly, this all feeds my Council hate, even before they decide to kill Buffy/Faith.

6. While I think Spike teaming up with Faith is unlikely, I do like fic on the subject, so I picked "he might" for the reasons you mention.
gabrielleabelle
Oct. 12th, 2011 08:26 pm (UTC)
Eh, I think the whiplash of the Buffy/Faith dynamic is more a consequence of inconsistent writing in S3. With Faith as just a recurring character, it makes her interactions, when she appears, kinda "off". But that's a long-standing complaint of mine that I don't think anybody agrees with, so hey. :)

Why wasn't Giles housing Faith for the 3 months of her residence that he was still employed by the Council, or Wesley when he took over? It's established in the first episode that it's not safe for her to live where she does. Mainly, this all feeds my Council hate, even before they decide to kill Buffy/Faith.

*nods*

Seriously, the fact that she was left to live in that crappy motel makes me mad. Bad show, adults.
pingback_bot
Oct. 12th, 2011 04:04 am (UTC)
Tuesday, October 11th
User rahirah referenced to your post from Tuesday, October 11th saying: [...] Episode Poll: 4.15 This Year's Girl [...]
treadingthedark
Oct. 12th, 2011 02:31 pm (UTC)
First of all, you made me crave donut holes.

1. Buffy. I know I've said this before but once Faith took such glee in killing the volcanologist, "you know, I never thought to ask!" I never liked her again. Still don't. Although I really liked the "step away from the glass" moment in Angel.

2. I answered not sure. No easy solution there.

3. Not Buffy's job. No way, no how.

4. Xander and Angel. I didn't put the Mayor because even though he seemed to have affection for her bottom line he was using her for his own purposes. The affection worked for that purpose.

5. I think part was to help her, to go into hiding as Buffy but I think it was more for revenge against Buffy.

6. I don't think so. I think he has already decided that Buffy is almost always on the winning side, and I don't think he would go against her without a damn good reason. Like the possibility of getting the chip out. If Faith could offer that, maybe.

7. Three. Not on my re-watch list.
gabrielleabelle
Oct. 12th, 2011 08:27 pm (UTC)
First of all, you made me crave donut holes.

Ah ha! My plan was a success! :)

2. *nods* My answer, as well.

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