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The Feminist Filter: School Hard

will57
Whoa. The LJ post entry thing looks different. Weird.

Anyhow, I'm planning to be doing birthday stuff this weekend and so won't have a chance to do The Feminist Filter. I'm eager to do School Hard though, so let's do it now! *bounces*

Mission Statement:

This series is intended to outline the feminist text of each episode so as to provoke and encourage open discussion. It's not so much about making value judgments about events and/or characters but about analyzing the series from a feminist framework so as to see what patterns and themes emerge.

Rules:

1. If you do not consider yourself a feminist or do not see the point of dissecting a TV show from a feminist perspective, this is not the meta series for you. I don't mean this in a hostile way, however the intended audience of this series is feminists who want to turn a critical eye to the show.

2. This meta series is written well beyond a 101 level of feminism. If you are new to feminism, I ask that you please take a look at this blog for an introduction to concepts that will be discussed heavily here.

3. If you begin to feel yourself getting defensive on behalf of a character (or the show), take a break from commenting. The outlines as posted are not meant to condemn either the characters or the show, but to contextualize the dialogue and events within the patriarchal cultural in which they reside.

4. BtVS is a constructed media. The characters are not actual people but are written, dressed, and directed by a team of outsiders. Criticizing a character for, say, having sex could be a sexist insult or it could be a legitimate criticism of the writers who chose to go that route with the storyline. There are nuances here when discussing a television show, and I ask that everybody be careful about exactly what's being discussed. A couple helpful terms are Watsonian and Doylist. "Watsonian" indicates that the discussion is taking place within the Buffy universe as if the characters are real people. "Doylist" indicates that the discussion is focused on the construction of the narrative and, as such, deals with the decisions of the writers and/or producers.

5. The key goal here is open discussion. I'm not presenting you guys with any brilliant insights; I'm just laying out what's in the episode. Feel free to discuss or disagree with me and others. Also feel free to answer other commenter's questions. The comment section is an open floor.



2.03 School Hard

I. The Tallies

Criteria for Bechdel Check: The episode must have a) two women in it b) who talk to each other c) about something besides a man.


  1. Bechdel Check: PASS on 12 counts

  2. Deaths:
    Dead boys: 5
    Dead girls: 0


II. Agency

Criteria for Agency: Do the female characters a) exert power or influence over the plot b) through decisions based on their own characterization? Agency means more than providing information or support that helps the (usually male) characters resolve the conflict.

The Plot: A new vampire, Spike, comes to town and offers to kill the Slayer for the Anointed One.

The Big Question:
If Buffy were taken out of this episode, would events occur in much the same fashion? No.
If Willow were taken out of this episode, would events occur in much the same fashion? Yes.
If Cordelia were taken out of this episode, would events occur in much the same fashion? Yes.
If Jenny were taken out of this episode, would events occur in much the same fashion? Yes.
If Joyce were taken out of this episode, would events occur in much the same fashion? No.
If Sheila were taken out of this episode, would events occur in much the same fashion? Yes.
If Drusilla were taken out of this episode, would events occur in much the same fashion? Yes.


  • Decisive Buffy: Buffy is in fine form this episode. Though she starts out largely reacting to that which is going on around her, as soon as Spike breaks up the Parent-Teacher night, Buffy is making the plans and giving orders, even to the adults.
  • Decisive Joyce: Joyce actually shows some agency in this episode when she forgoes escaping with the rest of the adults in order to check on Buffy. This leads to her saving Buffy by clocking Spike over the head with an ax.


III. The Feminist Fine-Toothed Comb

Criteria: Do any of the characters engage in sexist dialogue or action, whether overt or subtle? Does it receive an explicit rebuke or does it pass uncommented on? Further, what can be deduced from the various gendered comments that are made by the characters?


  • Protagonists (Buffy, Xander, Willow, Giles, Cordelia, Angel, Jenny, and Joyce)

    1. In Act Two, Buffy chides Angel for not meeting her at the Bronze. He says she had said she wasn't sure if she was going. Buffy's reply: "I was being cool. C'mon, you've been dating for, what, like, two hundred years? You don't know what a girl means when she says maybe she'll show?"

    I find it interesting when we get lines that play along the cultural beliefs of "men are from mars; women are from venus". Differing communication styles are a common point of contention between the genders, especially within a dating context. Men not being able to understand women, women who just won't say what they mean, on and on and on.

    From the research I've seen, there do seem to be some differences in how the genders communicate, though it's likely those differences are the result of different socialization.

    2. During the Parent-Teacher Night, Cordelia critiques Buffy's skincare routine.

    Buffy: What?

    Cordelia: You're starting to look a little slagged. What, are you just skipping foundation entirely now?

    Buffy: Cordelia, I have at least three lives to contend with, none of which really mesh. It's kind of like oil and water and a... third unmeshable thing.

    Cordelia: Yeah, and I can see the oil. (sees Joyce talking to Willow) Is that your mom? (Buffy looks) Now that is a woman that knows how to moisturize. Did it, like, skip a generation?


    Cordelia, as is typical, acts to enforce gender roles, reminding Buffy of the value of her appearance even whilst Buffy is worried about more substantial issues.

    3. When Angel is putting on an act in an attempt to fool Spike, he comments on Buffy as the Slayer: "She's cute. Not too bright, though. Gave the puppy dog 'I'm all tortured' act. Keeps her off my back when I feed!"

    It's interesting that the first thing he comments on is, of course, her attractiveness. Then he segues into a slam on her intelligence before continuing to paint a rather stereotypical picture of a hapless, silly teenage girl. He draws on a lot of stereotypes in his attempt to misdirect Spike.

    4. While in the closet with Willow, Cordelia prays: "And if you get me out of this, I swear I'll never be mean to anyone ever again. Unless they *really* deserve it. Or if it's that time of the month, in which case I don't think you or anyone else can hold me responsible..."

    The myth that women become uncontrollable during their period has been used to justify all sorts of oppression against women. Yet it's something that's still commonly referenced, often for humorous reasons.

  • Antagonists (Spike, Drusilla, the Anointed One)

    1. In Act One, Collin asks if Spike can kill the Slayer. Spike responds: "A lot faster than Nancy-boy there."

    'Nancy-boy' being a derogatory term wherein a man is insulted by, essentially, calling him female.

    2. In the same scene, Spike issues a challenge to the other vampies: "Any of you want to test who's got the biggest wrinklies 'round here...step on up."

    "Biggest wrinklies" seems to be a creative double entendre referring to both the vamp wrinkles and a man's balls, which are often alluded to as a source of strength. This implicitly links masculinity with strength.

    3. During the final act, Buffy and Spike face off for the first time. Buffy asks if they need weapons. Spike replies: "I just like them. They make me feel all manly."

    It's an interesting reference to masculinity being constructed through tools, suggesting the artificiality and performance of gender. It's also notable that Spike throws down his weapon after saying this, giving up that "manly feeling" he alluded to.

    4. Later in the fight, Spike almost wins against Buffy but is stopped by Joyce hitting him over the head with an ax. Spike exclaims, "Women!" before leaving.

    A strangely gendered exclamation, as if knocking people about with axes is a particularly female activity.




IV. Objectification Watch


  1. We're shown Buffy dancing from Spike's viewpoint early in the episode.


V. Points to Consider


  1. The top two troublemakers at Sunnydale High School are apparently girls. This defies common cultural stereotypes that boys are more likely to act up. What do we make of Buffy and Sheila as the "worst" students in the school?

  2. Drusilla announces to Spike that she's "a princess" during their scene with the Anointed One. Princesses, of course, being gendered and often coded as damsels in distress. How does the Drusilla/Spike relationship fall into gender lines? Does it subvert common gender ideology? We get interesting scenes such as this:

    Drusilla: I can't see her. The Slayer. I can't see. (looks back up) It's dark where she is. Kill her. Kill her, Spike. Kill her for me?

    Spike: It's done, baby.

    Drusilla: Kill her for princess?

    Spike: I'll chop her into messes.

    Drusilla: You are my sweet... my little Spike.


    What's to be made, especially, of Drusilla's referring to him as "little Spike", Spike being an obviously phallic, masculine name? Couple this with Spike's tendency to refer to Drusilla as "baby".

  3. What do we make of Spike's seduction of Sheila? He leads her to him with a few open-ended questions, capturing her interest. What gender processes - if any - are at work here?

  4. In an episode that stresses the many jobs of Buffy, we see her fail at one particular feminine-coded job: her lemonade is horrible. This is juxtaposed with her resounding success at her more masculine-coded job (Slaying). Is it necessary for this to be a zero-sum game for Buffy? Does the series depict these two aspects as being mutually exclusive or is Buffy able to embrace both the feminine and the masculine?

  5. Furthermore, could Buffy's juggling of various jobs be a commentary on the expanded burden women tend to face today?

    Buffy: We're going to the Bronze. I can study and party and do Parent-Teacher night and make my mother proud as long as I don't have to...

    Giles and Jenny come walking in.

    Giles: Buffy!

    Buffy: ...fight vampires.


    Since the women's movement has granted women more freedoms and opportunities, it's also piled on more responsibilities. Women still do the majority of the housework despite working full-time jobs in greater numbers. They're still primarily responsible for childcare. Much has been made of the expectations that women excel in a variety of tasks.

  6. Spike presents an interesting character from a feminist perspective. As a reputed Slayer-killer, he is essentially a killer of women, bringing to mind allusions to serial killers. An argument could be made for his raison d'être being steeped in misogynistic undertones. However, a counter-interpretation is one where Spike specifically seeks out the strongest fighter, who he recognizes to be a girl - the Slayer. This positions Spike in a more enlightened role wherein he acknowledges a Slayer's strength and warrior status and views her as an equal to prove himself.




Comments

( 84 comments — Leave a comment )
samsom
Aug. 19th, 2011 02:28 am (UTC)
They're still primarily responsible for childcare. Much has been made of the expectations that women excel in a variety of tasks.

The timing on this is amazing. I work in the law enforcement arena (clerical, not as custody) and my boss today was telling me that being custody was easy, I'd just have to go away to training for about 12 to 16 weeks, and I'd be making more money - easy, peasy. I replied "sure, I'll just put my kids in storage for 16 weeks, no problem." Because even though I am married, I will always be primarily responsible for the caring of our children. So I made him aware that some avenues will always be closed to me as long as I prioritize my kids over my desire to make more money.

And when I told him all the things about being custody that I DO NOT WANT, he flippantly replied "oh, I got the so-and-so to do it for me." I told him that wouldn't ever be an option for me, because if I wanted to be seen as an equal, I'd have to pretty much 'step up' and do every icky thing the men do or else I'd get treated as a woman who needed to be coddled. Never mind that some of the guys side-step shit all the time. No one ever made it about gender when they did it, but it would have been all about my gender if I refused to do the same things.

As a reputed Slayer-killer, he is essentially a killer of women, bringing to mind allusions to serial killers. An argument could be made for his raison d'être being steeped in misogynistic undertones.

I think the misogyny belongs to the those guys with the staffs who chose to make girls their vessel. I think Spike saw himself as a Slayer-killer, and the fact that the Slayers were women was incidental to him.

gabrielleabelle
Aug. 19th, 2011 03:11 am (UTC)
*nods*

Ugh. So annoying that you're in that situation. I know it's one that familiar to a lot of women. That's why clerical jobs - jobs that require relatively little investment - are female-dominated. Jobs that require extensive training, travel, hours, etc are much harder for women to manage due to their other responsibilities.

It's interesting in that a lot of the top-level careers are, in essence, two-person careers. They require the person actually putting in the hours and doing the business, and they require the person behind the scenes to take care of the paid worker - cooking, cleaning, taking care of any spawn. The latter, of course, falls to women and, whaddayaknow, it's unpaid.

Sorry, I get off on a ramble when it comes to women's labor. Will stop.


I think the misogyny belongs to the those guys with the staffs who chose to make girls their vessel. I think Spike saw himself as a Slayer-killer, and the fact that the Slayers were women was incidental to him.


I tend to agree with your interpretation of Spike, though I would point out that the Shadow Men didn't exactly have a monopoly on misogyny. Unfortunately. It'd be awesome to have it so concentrated, you know. *sigh*
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eowyn_315
Aug. 19th, 2011 02:34 am (UTC)
Dead girls: 0

Sheila doesn't count? Granted, she's undead - have you included turnings in the tally before? I can't remember.

From the research I've seen, there do seem to be some differences in how the genders communicate, though it's likely those differences are the result of different socialization.

I imagine the fact that Buffy and Angel grew up in totally different societies also has an impact. I mean, Buffy makes the joke about dating for two hundred years, but in reality, Angel hasn't dated for the last one hundred years, and before that he was with Darla, so I doubt he's up on the intricacies of high school relationships.

It's an interesting reference to masculinity being constructed through tools, suggesting the artificiality and performance of gender.

Or perhaps a reference to the fact that most weapons are phallic? Swords, knives, stakes, that pole Spike is twirling...

What do we make of Buffy and Sheila as the "worst" students in the school?

Well, later on (I'm thinking of "Go Fish" in particular, but it may crop up elsewhere), we'll see that Snyder's definition of "bad behavior" is absurdly biased. If a guy plays a sport, he can pretty much get away with anything - which is actually not unusual in high school. The point being, they're probably not the worst students, just the ones Snyder personally dislikes the most. (Although Sheila IS pretty bad...)

How does the Drusilla/Spike relationship fall into gender lines? Does it subvert common gender ideology?

Drusilla, being weak and needing Spike to take care of her, is rather damsely in the first half of the season - which I think is intentional, in order for it to be subverted in the second half, when Spike is the one who's injured and Drusilla is the strong one. One thing that we don't actually know yet, but in retrospect, Drusilla being Spike's sire might suggest a flipping of gender roles, since the sire is generally the more powerful vampire. And the "little Spike" comment makes sense if Dru thinks of him as her "child" in the same way that Angelus is "Daddy."
gabrielleabelle
Aug. 19th, 2011 03:16 am (UTC)
Sheila doesn't count? Granted, she's undead - have you included turnings in the tally before? I can't remember.

Nope, I haven't, unless they then get dusted later (so Ford's gonna count in Lie to Me). I had to spend a lot of time hemming and hawing about how to tally that when I started this. :)

I imagine the fact that Buffy and Angel grew up in totally different societies also has an impact. I mean, Buffy makes the joke about dating for two hundred years, but in reality, Angel hasn't dated for the last one hundred years, and before that he was with Darla, so I doubt he's up on the intricacies of high school relationships.

Good point.

Or perhaps a reference to the fact that most weapons are phallic? Swords, knives, stakes, that pole Spike is twirling...

Oh, yes. That, too. :)

If a guy plays a sport, he can pretty much get away with anything - which is actually not unusual in high school. The point being, they're probably not the worst students, just the ones Snyder personally dislikes the most. (Although Sheila IS pretty bad...)

Huh. I find that interesting. Because in the real world, while it's true that athletes can get away with all sorts of shit in schools, non-athlete boys still tend to be the ones who will be punished more often and more strongly by the school. There are a lot of sociological reasons for this. I'm not sure how to apply any of them to the episode and Sheila and Buffy being the Top Two Miscreants. I'm gonna have to ponder.

Drusilla, being weak and needing Spike to take care of her, is rather damsely in the first half of the season - which I think is intentional, in order for it to be subverted in the second half, when Spike is the one who's injured and Drusilla is the strong one. One thing that we don't actually know yet, but in retrospect, Drusilla being Spike's sire might suggest a flipping of gender roles, since the sire is generally the more powerful vampire. And the "little Spike" comment makes sense if Dru thinks of him as her "child" in the same way that Angelus is "Daddy."

*nods*

That's how I tend to view it. I wonder if the "princess" references continue in the second half of the season. I just finished the outline for Phases, so I don't have too much info on the second half, yet. Will have to wait and see.
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rebcake
Aug. 19th, 2011 03:44 am (UTC)
It had never occurred to me that "wrinklies" might refer to vamp forehead wrinklies. So much for the doubleness of that entendre in my single entendre brain. Heh.

Yeah, I'd count Sheila as a girl death, though since she unlives to fight another day, it's tricky.

One thing I see said a lot (even by James Marsters) is that Spike mostly kills young women. Since we see him kill 3 boys/men (+ The Anointed One) and no women in this episode, I don't know where this idea comes from. People usually remember him siring Sheila, when it's actually Dru. *shrugs* I think because he comes off as sexually predatory (and how!) the assumption is that he also fits the serial killer model of murdering the gender one is attracted to. Of course, since it's Spike, it's more complicated than that.

Same with the Dru/Spike relationship. They're lovers, but also parent/child AND siblings. Of course, until FFL, many of the nuances of their relationship are unseen, so it's hard to even remember what the impression was here. Definitely the power seemed to be with Drusilla, relationship-wise, even with her weakness. She's giving him orders, he goes to her for comfort, and in a scene that had enormous impact on me, she's the one drawing blood in a fey demonstration of dominance.

I could go on about them for a long, long time. Short version — Spike seems to be as Drusilla made him. If he's macho, it seems as much her choice that he's that way as his. We've seen William, so we know he had a job of recreating himself into the knight she envisioned — the character of "Spike" is a tour de force of (as you say) "the artificiality and performance of gender".

Another thing I liked in this episode was Jenny Calendar's total equality with Giles. She's openly challenging him and just as conversant in the issues as he is. It's one thing to complain about the inequality of most relationships, it's another to show what a relationship based on equality looks like. ♥
eowyn_315
Aug. 19th, 2011 03:50 am (UTC)
It had never occurred to me that "wrinklies" might refer to vamp forehead wrinklies. So much for the doubleness of that entendre in my single entendre brain. Heh.

Hee! Whereas I always assumed it meant the forehead wrinklies, and was like, "What? No! You dirty-minded people!" the first time someone mentioned balls. :)
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ever_neutral
Aug. 19th, 2011 03:45 am (UTC)
A strangely gendered exclamation, as if knocking people about with axes is a particularly female activity.

BAHA! Indeed.

2. Yeah, it's interesting. I feel like that's somehow connected to the Buffy-Dru parallel re: Angel (Buffy sees him as her protector, but instead becomes his victim; Dru already is a victim of his abuse). How exactly does that connect to Dru/Spike? … Someone more articulate probably can tell you.

3. "You're about to get something a whole lot better", or whatever he said. The performance of masculinity, as per usual. What's interesting is the "who do you want me to be?" line. That pretty much foreshadows Spike's whole emotional arc, which is basically about how he remodels himself to be what the women in his life want him to be. GENDER SUBVERSION, YAY.

4. Mostly yes? I feel like she did wind up having to "become a man", so to speak, by the end of the series, but even in "Chosen", she still declares enthusiasm for shoe-shopping and such. I'd say the overall point is that it (the separation of masculine and feminine) really shouldn't be necessary.

6. Heh. I tend to take the latter view. I wouldn't say Spike's Slayer-lust is rooted in misogyny. I think his dependence and admiration of his mother set the pattern for his identification with women over men (with the exception of maybe Angel), and that might have something to do with him specifically marking out these women as his "equals". Would he be so enthusiastic about the ~job if the Slayers were men? That's debatable.
effulgentgirl
Aug. 19th, 2011 04:14 am (UTC)
3. "You're about to get something a whole lot better", or whatever he said. The performance of masculinity, as per usual. What's interesting is the "who do you want me to be?" line. That pretty much foreshadows Spike's whole emotional arc, which is basically about how he remodels himself to be what the women in his life want him to be. GENDER SUBVERSION, YAY.

Nice catch! Calling himself 'something' and describing himself as a prize Sheila's won could be considered self-objectification. Does he do it because he assumes Sheila wants to take the stereotypically masculine role? Or simply because he's comfortable taking that stereotypically female role?

(Now I've got a new game - imagining Spike's lines said by women.)
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effulgentgirl
Aug. 19th, 2011 04:05 am (UTC)
When Angel is putting on an act in an attempt to fool Spike, he comments on Buffy as the Slayer: "She's cute. Not too bright, though. Gave the puppy dog 'I'm all tortured' act. Keeps her off my back when I feed!"

It's interesting that the first thing he comments on is, of course, her attractiveness. Then he segues into a slam on her intelligence before continuing to paint a rather stereotypical picture of a hapless, silly teenage girl. He draws on a lot of stereotypes in his attempt to misdirect Spike.


This is echoed a few episodes later during Lie to Me, in Angel's description of the gypsy girl he murdered to Buffy: "Beautiful. Dumb as a post." I think this is more of an active statement about Angel's character and values, beyond a soft of lazy misogyny. I'm wicked exhausted, so I can't unpack all the layers to this, but the similarities and contrasts are interesting. In School Hard, we know he's lying to Spike, but he's got to say something with a bit of truth to it to get Spike to believe in. In Lie to Me, we assume he's telling Buffy the truth, but it's not hard to see a bit of storytelling creep in, perhaps to make his crime seem less awful. Does he tell Spike that Buffy is 'not too bright' because Spike will believe that Angelus is drawn to torture & betray that type of woman? Does Angel tend to see pretty, less intelligent women as easy to manipulate and more dispensable?

The top two troublemakers at Sunnydale High School are apparently girls. This defies common cultural stereotypes that boys are more likely to act up. What do we make of Buffy and Sheila as the "worst" students in the school?

Not just the worst, but possibly also the most physically violent. Sheila stabs a teacher, and by the season's end Snyder will have plausible reason to believe that Buffy's a murderer. "Bad" female characters are usually coded as bad through sexuality, interpersonal manipulation, etc., not through physical violence. (At least in general, it's somewhat different in this genre.) But Sheila stands out (alone?) as a "bad girl" who acts out violently well before gaining any superpowers (as opposed to what we see on screen of Darla, Drusilla, Faith, Glory, Willow).

During the final act, Buffy and Spike face off for the first time. Buffy asks if they need weapons. Spike replies: "I just like them. They make me feel all manly."

Later in the fight, Spike almost wins against Buffy but is stopped by Joyce hitting him over the head with an ax. Spike exclaims, "Women!" before leaving. A strangely gendered exclamation, as if knocking people about with axes is a particularly female activity.


God, I love Spike. I know he was supposed to be a throwaway character, but this seems so intentional, this purposeful fucking with gender. Does it just seem resonant because it was moments like these the writers drew on as they elaborated his character? The kind of guy who associates women with axes is the kind of guy who falls in love with the best fighter in the world. The kind of guy who admits that he likes weapons because they make him feel masculine is the kind of guy who'll admit that he's love bitch. Etc etc.
gabrielleabelle
Aug. 19th, 2011 04:27 am (UTC)
This is echoed a few episodes later during Lie to Me, in Angel's description of the gypsy girl he murdered to Buffy: "Beautiful. Dumb as a post." I think this is more of an active statement about Angel's character and values, beyond a soft of lazy misogyny.

Fantastic point. I think Angel made that comment back in S1's Angel, though. Same principle. I'm a bit on the tired end, myself, so I'm not sure exactly where to take idea, but it does intrigue me.

"Bad" female characters are usually coded as bad through sexuality, interpersonal manipulation, etc., not through physical violence.

Ah, you're very right.

Does it just seem resonant because it was moments like these the writers drew on as they elaborated his character? The kind of guy who associates women with axes is the kind of guy who falls in love with the best fighter in the world. The kind of guy who admits that he likes weapons because they make him feel masculine is the kind of guy who'll admit that he's love bitch. Etc etc.

*nods*

*nods again*
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spikes_wish
Aug. 19th, 2011 09:31 am (UTC)
Deleted by me 'cause I saw you'd already answered my question above!
gabrielleabelle
Aug. 19th, 2011 02:56 pm (UTC)
It's a good question! :)
cmdc
Aug. 19th, 2011 09:37 am (UTC)
Drusilla's clothes
I find it interesting that Drusilla seems to have the masculine role in her relationship with Spike but also wears very feminine, delicate, childish, old-fashioned clothes in either black or white. After she leaves Spike she starts wearing modern, sexualized, red leather clothing. Did she dress to please Spike as much as he dressed to please her? Did Spike really want her to dress like that or did she just assume he did because of her upbringing? Was it an attempt at manipulating him by taking on the female trappings of a less liberated time in order to conceal the dominant role she had in the relationship?

I like to think that she thought she was making him happy but also was working some feminine wiles held over from her childhood and time with Angelus.
gabrielleabelle
Aug. 19th, 2011 03:10 pm (UTC)
Re: Drusilla's clothes
I've also found her change in clothing styles interesting. I find her white frock in this episode makes her seem almost doll-like, which gives the initial impression that she's submissive to Spike. However, midway through the episode, we see she has a doll of her own whom she controls, subverting the surface perception.

I think, more practically, she wears a lot of nightgowns in the first half of the season because of her infirmity. Once she recovers, I assume she wears what she normally does.
Re: Drusilla's clothes - pippind - Aug. 19th, 2011 03:45 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Drusilla's clothes - boot_the_grime - Aug. 23rd, 2011 12:02 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Drusilla's clothes - eowyn_315 - Aug. 23rd, 2011 08:13 pm (UTC) - Expand
gillo
Aug. 19th, 2011 11:23 am (UTC)
So much to agree with here. I've added a few points in comments because I just can't stop myself, but also:

There's one heck of a lot of playing with gender roles here. Spike is almost as objectified as Buffy when we see him in The Bronze - two equally beautiful, lethal creatures. Angel adopts an exaggerated masculinity when he meets Spike in the school - but my Ghod there are slashy overtones too.

When we compare Spike's relationship with Dru to Angel's with Buffy we see a lot of interesting contrasts as well as similarities. Angel consistently codes as alpha male in his decisiveness and assumptions of agency, despite the fact that Buffy is his equal in almost every way but age. Spike tries to maintain that alpha maleness, but is under Dru's thumb from their first scene. Even the killing of the Slayer is presented as her wish - the present he can take his princess. So their relationship, manly man protecting enfeebled, delicate woman is inverted and subverted at every level.

Sheila's interesting - she never reappears - apart from the Doylian explanation, one wonders why. She too is an example of playing with gender roles - she is rough, tough, care-for-no-one, the archetypal teenage (boy) tearaway, yet part of her badness is expressed through her intimidating boyfriend and her readiness, one presumes, to cuckold him with Spike - not exactly a feminist definition of badness. (This at a stage where we can assume all the Scoobie women are virgins. And Xander.)

There are many reasons why I can watch this episode forever. You've just added a few more to think about!
gabrielleabelle
Aug. 19th, 2011 03:14 pm (UTC)
Spike is almost as objectified as Buffy when we see him in The Bronze - two equally beautiful, lethal creatures.

I don't know. I'd kinda dispute that. Cause it's clearly a situation where we are getting an explicit male gaze, something that's rare on BtVS. It's similar to the view of Buffy we get throughout Passion with Angelus watching her in stalker-fashion. While we, as ladies who find Spike hot, obviously view him as attractive in the scene, I don't think the scene is at all constructed in any particularly special way to encourage that (unlike scenes we'll get of Spike later in S6).

yet part of her badness is expressed through her intimidating boyfriend and her readiness, one presumes, to cuckold him with Spike - not exactly a feminist definition of badness.

Ah, yes! Beat me to it. :)
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diamondtook862
Aug. 19th, 2011 11:47 am (UTC)
I think Spike's 'women' comment might actually be gender affirmation, in his own twisted way. Spike sees women as strong and independent- worthy foes. The problem for him is that they keep getting in his way with all their strength and ability to defy expectations. There may also be an element of never understanding what's going to offend them, but a nicer (yet still gendered) possibility is that he sees women as protecting their own. Unfortunately, this again always turns out badly for him. It's clear that he respects the strength of women and generally doesn't underestimate that aspec. But he also doesn't understand the way their minds work (which may assume they all work the same way to him, I'm not sure) so they also terribly confuse him and mess up his plans against them.

Let's just say Angel was more predictable to him, no?
gabrielleabelle
Aug. 19th, 2011 03:19 pm (UTC)
Haha! Yeah, I think so. :)

Excellent thoughts!
norwie2010
Aug. 19th, 2011 11:51 am (UTC)
1. I take it that Snyder is just a shitty women-hating creep who likes to lick ass (and deservedly gets eaten by his boss). Still, it is interesting that Sheila is a cliched "bad girl". She transgresses her female role by being physically aggressive and drug abusing, while being sexually active - and a bit on the dumb side (falling for Spike's spiel). This is one of the more problematic areas of BtVS - while the show often subverts gender roles and expectations when it comes to Buffy herself, secondary or tertiary characters often get the full cliched treatment.

2. Dru/Spike are set up in traditional gender roles (bad boy and princess) but it quickly gets subverted: "little Spike".

Same with the Buffy/Spike dynamics. Spike is introduced here as the male sexual predator in their first encounter but by their last encounter in this ep he looses (deliberately) his manly-ness (=weapon) - and the fight - while Buffy takes charge (like a traditional manly protagonist) and saves the day.

The subversion of gender roles and expectations around Buffy and Spike are the most fascinating stuff BtVS ever came up with (which ties in to what i said under 1): the subversion occurs with Buffy and her foils and not so much other characters).

6. I have a rather dark reading of Spike as the killer of empowered women, because that's what he does: He kills responsible, burdened and empowered women to make himself feel better. Does he do this because he wants to fight the best? Does he do this to get killed by a woman? Does he do this as everlasting revenge to Cecily Underwood? Does he do this because of his mother? Does he do this to prove his devotion to one woman (Dru)?

I bet all of that. But at the end of the day, he kills (empowered) women for sports.

So, it is - as always with Spike - complicated: There is misogyny in his narrative, regardless of Spike's reasons. But he is not your average misogynist creep (see: Snyder), his reasons for hunting women are layered and complicated (from revenge, to recreating the murder of his mother, to fighting the best and and his death wish).

I would have wished for the show (and Spike and Buffy) to explore this more, alas, all i got was LMPTM, which was a huge disappointment in that regard.
gabrielleabelle
Aug. 19th, 2011 03:25 pm (UTC)

The subversion of gender roles and expectations around Buffy and Spike are the most fascinating stuff BtVS ever came up with


*nods*

I'm looking forward to going into it more in-depth.

6. Good points, all. I can't really dispute any of that, and I definitely think there are a lot of layers into Spike's predilection for killing Slayers. I think, actually, the show does address this in a meta, more general sense with Spike's redemption arc, as a whole.

For most of his unlife, Spike identifies the night he killed the Chinese Slayer (and had sex with Drusilla beside her dead body) as "the best night of [his] life". By S7, though, his night spent holding Buffy in Touched, lending her emotional support, takes its place. Instead of brutally murdering the empowered women being his crowning achievement, it's supporting them unconditionally.

I think there's definitely a way to read Spike's redemption story within a gender framework of a man overcoming misogyny and finding a more egalitarian way of life and thought.
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local_max
Aug. 19th, 2011 03:46 pm (UTC)
Protagonists

1. I think interesting in Buffy's statement is not just that men and women are different, but that Angel should know by now what form those differences take. I think it's pretty problematic, to say the least, that men should always assume women mean 'yes, I will show up / yes I am into you' when they say 'maybe I will show up.' Not that signals are automatically bad, but that the assumption that people who are dating *should* be able to read each other's minds based on gender stereotypes? Yeah, not a fan.

OTOH, I don't think Angel is confused about what Buffy wants here; I think he knows that she wanted him to come and he's playing manipulative games. So, you know, not support of Angel here.

3. Which of course suggests, act or no, that that's what Angel acted like back in the day.

4. Cordelia is always trying to game the system to what she thinks is her advantage. But in the end she is reinforcing gender stereotypes which entrap her. Poor Cordy.

Antagonists

4. The "women" line is interesting -- and I think it does suggest the weird combination of, hm. Misogyny, yes. Awe, also. Women are to be feared. Spike is heavily influenced by women, and so as a result feels powerless against them, in a way that very few men have. Angel is the biggest exception. Of course -- he does perform in front of men.

V

2. Princesses are also royalty. Spike isn't royalty. I think the dynamic is somewhat set up so that he is the dashing suitor to the princess. But she is the one who actually does (somewhat genuinely) have the power and call the shots. Until Dru no longer returns Spike's love -- and then he attacks her. (Problematic? Hm....)

6. Always both. I think he does seek out the strongest fighter. But his thing for slayers and his thing for women who dominate over him (and whom he resents as a result) are pretty related. His mother issues are pretty dominant, I think.
gabrielleabelle
Aug. 19th, 2011 05:52 pm (UTC)
1. I think it's problematic all-around, yeah. The whole, "Women never just say what they want!" thing, which is unfortunately often perpetuated by women, leads to a lot of badness.

3. Very true.

4. *nods*

2 & 6. *nods* Spike is such an interesting character to put under feminist analysis. I'm enjoying the different takes on it.
(no subject) - norwie2010 - Aug. 19th, 2011 11:37 pm (UTC) - Expand
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spikesjojo
Aug. 20th, 2011 02:21 am (UTC)
I've occasionally wondered if there was some sort of subtle penis metaphor in the way that 4x4 shrinks to a small piece of dry planking in the scene where Spike is defeated.

I actually see Spike cruising Buffy at the Bronze as a liberation Buffy is showing. She's not dancing to seduce, or to reassure a partner. She doesn't even have a male partner - not in the traditional sense. She moves for the joy of moving. Spike's stalking is predatory - but he's looking over another predator, not a potential victim (in the traditional male female paradigm, at least). It's not until she bungles the fight he sets up that he seems to begin to show any disregard, and I think that's performance based. Yeah - there's definite UST - but he's clearly not out there for eye candy.

Dru's abilities as a seer - womens' intuition?
gabrielleabelle
Aug. 20th, 2011 02:38 am (UTC)
I've occasionally wondered if there was some sort of subtle penis metaphor in the way that 4x4 shrinks to a small piece of dry planking in the scene where Spike is defeated.

I had never noticed that! I'm gonna have to check the screenshots again.

I actually see Spike cruising Buffy at the Bronze as a liberation Buffy is showing.

Excellent points. The scene's mention in the "Objectification Watch" section is primarily based on how the scene is directed via camera angles and such.

Dru's abilities as a seer - womens' intuition?

Ah! Yes! I really should have added a point about that. Next time Drusilla appears, we'll put that up for more in-depth discussion. :)
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treadingthedark
Aug. 20th, 2011 04:45 am (UTC)
I enjoyed this whole discussion so much my brain is tingling! Really loved everyone's thoughts, so much to ponder.

Also, put me in the group that only went to the forehead wrinklies.

The "women" from Spike I interpreted as Spike not being willing to kill Buffy's mother for some reason. This was reinforced later during Becoming 1, Lover's Walk,and so on. I thought he had mother issues, and that turned out to be true.

Sheila being a bad girl even though she was sexually active it wasn't just her bad boyfriend that made her bad. Xander even said that meatpie was the guy "she CAN take home to mother." So a case can be made for Sheila totally owning her sexuality I suppose.

I LOVE the gender inversions we get from Spike, I think his story is riddled with it. It's one of the reasons I love him I think.

One of my favorite scenes is the end of What's My Line when Dru, looking dark and powerful and scary, picks Spike up and carries him out like he's nothing. It makes me happy for some reason.

boot_the_grime
Aug. 23rd, 2011 12:12 am (UTC)
One of my favorite scenes is the end of What's My Line when Dru, looking dark and powerful and scary, picks Spike up and carries him out like he's nothing. It makes me happy for some reason.

But then in Surprise, despite her being strong and Spike being in a wheelchair, she's still acting like a little girl and asking Spike if she can have the Judge, if she can gorge Dalton's eyes, and he's acting like her protector when the Judge wants to burn her. And when Angelus comes back, instead of acting like the leader, she is letting him act as one and going along with (encouraging?) his macho/rivalry games with Spike, enjoying, in her own words, having the boys 'fight' over her.

Dru is totally a dark image of a traditional deceptively childlike female who wields her power through men she manipulates rather than directly. She's not the leader type, she's always the power behind the throne.
boot_the_grime
Aug. 23rd, 2011 12:19 am (UTC)
About Sheila: is her fate an example of the trope that Bad (sexually promiscuous) Girls end up badly? Although at least she gets sired, rather than ending up as just food. And I guess it's true that if you go with a complete stranger, he may turn out to be a serial killer, it's a matter of carelessness.

As for the gender of Spike's victims, it's hard to make a statistics since we see so few of them on screen. But, he makes it clear that he likes younger victims (veal) and he seems to show a special interest in young women. There's a strong sexually predatory vibe with his behavior towards Buffy in this episode (the way he watches her at the Bronze, the reference to her menstruation and sexual maturity: "I smell the blood of a nice, ripe girl") and in Halloween ("the tenderest meat you've ever tasted" and his enjoyment in seeing her helpless and meek).
gabrielleabelle
Aug. 23rd, 2011 03:13 pm (UTC)
About Sheila: is her fate an example of the trope that Bad (sexually promiscuous) Girls end up badly?

Seems to be. As I recall, the early seasons were pretty liberal with this trope.

And yep on the Spike.
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angearia
Aug. 26th, 2011 11:51 pm (UTC)
late comment is late
4. Later in the fight, Spike almost wins against Buffy but is stopped by Joyce hitting him over the head with an ax. Spike exclaims, "Women!" before leaving.

A strangely gendered exclamation, as if knocking people about with axes is a particularly female activity.


Yeah, this seems like deliberate inversion. Typically that gendered exclamation comes from a stereotypical situation like women always being late because they take forever getting ready or something else. But for Spike to growl angrily at being foiled by two women being strong enough to intellectually and physically besting him -- well, being frustrated at "women!" for being strong and righteous isn't exactly derogatory in the typical manner.

It frames the women as the heroes and the men as the villains -- when women use violence, it's to protect, where as men (more specifically male vampires) use it to endanger innocents (even Angel uses violence against Xander, endangering an innocent).

We're shown Buffy dancing from Spike's viewpoint early in the episode.

The objectification is framed as evil, predatory, and intent upon discerning a woman's weak spots to ~destroy her. Or for Spike with his yen for Slayers, to prove his dominance by beating the woman down.

Does the series depict these two aspects as being mutually exclusive or is Buffy able to embrace both the feminine and the masculine?

I think she embraces both feminine and masculine; she just doesn't know how to cook apparently, probably lacking experience. She eventually does learn how to cook at the Doublemeat Palace. Does that count? :P (Oh, also interesting how when she does work, she works in ~women's roles that are often unpaid -- serving food, cooking food, offering counseling and comfort to children.)

Spike presents an interesting character from a feminist perspective. As a reputed Slayer-killer, he is essentially a killer of women, bringing to mind allusions to serial killers. An argument could be made for his raison d'être being steeped in misogynistic undertones. However, a counter-interpretation is one where Spike specifically seeks out the strongest fighter, who he recognizes to be a girl - the Slayer. This positions Spike in a more enlightened role wherein he acknowledges a Slayer's strength and warrior status and views her as an equal to prove himself.

It's a mixed bag here. He does recognize the Slayer, a woman, as the strongest fighter. But his goal is to restore himself, the man, to superiority over her by killing her. He recognizes the woman is the most powerful, but cannot let it stand. And likewise, his relationship with Drusilla seems to fall in line with stroking his ego -- Dru, even when she's at full strength, seems to play at being weak.

I think it's performative for Spike. He's accepting the gender roles here -- to be manly is to kill and fuck and be strong for his lady.


ETA: Oh, it's worth mentioning that this episode is modeled after the movie "Die Hard" and Buffy is slated in the role of the hero, John McClane, played by Bruce Willis. His character is UBER masculine and badass. Clearly, Buffy's role to fill. :P



Edited at 2011-08-27 12:19 am (UTC)
gabrielleabelle
Aug. 27th, 2011 01:51 am (UTC)
Re: late comment is late
But for Spike to growl angrily at being foiled by two women being strong enough to intellectually and physically besting him -- well, being frustrated at "women!" for being strong and righteous isn't exactly derogatory in the typical manner.

*nods*

The objectification is framed as evil, predatory, and intent upon discerning a woman's weak spots to ~destroy her. Or for Spike with his yen for Slayers, to prove his dominance by beating the woman down.

Yeah. I'd have to check the camera framing, but it really does seem to foreshadow Angelus' similar stalking of Buffy in Passion.

(Oh, also interesting how when she does work, she works in ~women's roles that are often unpaid -- serving food, cooking food, offering counseling and comfort to children.)

Huh. Interesting.

I think it's performative for Spike. He's accepting the gender roles here -- to be manly is to kill and fuck and be strong for his lady.

Yes. So much of Spike, in general, is performative.


ETA: Oh, it's worth mentioning that this episode is modeled after the movie "Die Hard" and Buffy is slated in the role of the hero, John McClane, played by Bruce Willis. His character is UBER masculine and badass. Clearly, Buffy's role to fill. :P


Ack! Definitely worth mentioning! That completely slipped my mind. :)
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