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Schmoop, Fluff, Angst, Death?

will57
So as I've been working on writing, I looked ahead on my schmoop_bingo prompts. One of them is "anniversary - one partner sick". My immediate thought was to go back to the post-apocalyptic universe of Strength that I'd gone to with Connection and Defeat. But then I came up against something that caused me to pause.

Cause if I did go back there for that prompt, Buffy would die.

After all, Defeat has the fallout of a nuclear explosion, and Buffy's clearly sick. It's not explicitly noted, but I wrote it so that she has leukemia as a result of exposure to radiation. She proposes marriage to Spike, though. For the next visitation to the verse, it makes sense to me that she'd die.

But...well, I suppose the connotation with "schmoop" is that the fics will be fluffy. But that's not exactly my take on the term. I'm not good at writing fluff, despite my love for reading the genre. So I like my schmoop_fics to have something of an edge to them.

"Schmoop", to me, is just a sign that there'll be overwhelming romantic shippiness of some sort. This, obviously, can include fluff as couples do couple-y things (Say, eating pancakes together or something syrupy like that). But it can also refer to a character, say, having a long monologue about how much they love their partner as they die. That would be schmoop. It would be sad schmoop, but schmoop nonetheless.

Though I'm kinda wondering if I'm alone in my interpretation of schmoop. Are most people expecting pure fluff when they read a schmoopfic? If so, I'd feel kinda bad about delivering a deathfic (even though I'm surely gonna warn).

So, schmoop, guys? What's it mean to you?

Um...should this go under a cut? Does this count as potential fic spoilers for a hypothetical fic that's as of yet unwritten? I have no clue on the etiquette on this one.

Edit: My minority opinion, let me show you it. Think along the lines of Buffy killing Angel in Becoming Pt 2 or Fred's death or Wesley's death for schmoopy death scenes. At least, I find them schmoopy. But I appear to be working from a different definition of "schmoop" than most people...

Comments

( 53 comments — Leave a comment )
me_llamo_nic
Aug. 18th, 2010 11:30 pm (UTC)
To me, schmoop implies a happy ending. That said, you can have happy endings with dead characters, though I think killing Buffy would make that difficult. If you feel like you can call it a happy ending, even in spite of the character death, then it's probably fine.

And of course, that will differ from reader to reader; others might think happy endings aren't needed in order to count something as schmoop.
gabrielleabelle
Aug. 19th, 2010 12:44 am (UTC)
Uh, yeah, the ending wouldn't be happy for this one. :/
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ceciliaj
Aug. 18th, 2010 11:33 pm (UTC)
My first thought is that you should write whatever you want -- the bingo card is just a cool way to give you writing prompts that inspire MOAR FIC, which is what I, the gentle reader, want. But that's partly because I like what you write in general, and am more prone to look for fic from authors I've read before than to do the more ff.net thing of looking for pairings or genres.

Also, I'm not a writer myself, and I don't know if part of the point of the schmoop bingo is to serve readers looking to OD on fluffy schmoop, and if your tag would indicate that that's the primary purpose your story would serve. So I could be weird/wrong.
gabrielleabelle
Aug. 19th, 2010 12:44 am (UTC)
:)
zanthinegirl
Aug. 18th, 2010 11:41 pm (UTC)
I like my fluff to have a little bit of a bite, but if you're going to kill off a main character can I suggest an "angst" warning?
gabrielleabelle
Aug. 19th, 2010 12:45 am (UTC)
As noted, I would properly warn for the character death and angst.
botias
Aug. 18th, 2010 11:45 pm (UTC)
I agree on the happy ending thing. A character could die, but they probably would have to go on to dwell with their true love in a dimension of eternal schmoop or something.
ceciliaj
Aug. 18th, 2010 11:46 pm (UTC)
dimension of eternal schmoop hee!
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rebcake
Aug. 18th, 2010 11:54 pm (UTC)
I looked for a definition of "schmoop" and the only thing that was indefinite enough to apply to fic in general was:

"schmoop" is anything disgustingly romantic

Which is unlikely to apply to death scenes, methinks.

I thought that it would be a breeze to write the schmoop, but my contrary nature keeps turning it into something else. I haven't got any squares crossed off. Hmpf. Which isn't to say that I haven't got any writing out of the prompts. That's ultimately more important. *nods*
gabrielleabelle
Aug. 19th, 2010 12:47 am (UTC)
Death scenes can't be disgustingly romantic? I think of Buffy killing Angel in Becoming 2 as quite schmoopy and angstastic. Same with Fred's death in AtS. Or Wesley's death.
(no subject) - rebcake - Aug. 19th, 2010 01:30 am (UTC) - Expand
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stormwreath
Aug. 19th, 2010 12:08 am (UTC)
Well... if the plot of 'Love Story' counts as schmoop, I'd say you're good to go. Soppy and romanticised deathbed scenes are a staple of a certain kind of fiction - although I don't think they're usually set against the background of a nuclear holocaust. Points for originality there. :-)

Having said that, I do sympathise with me_llamo_nic's point: personally, I think a fic labelled schmoop should send the reader away feeling happy and fuzzy. They might be in floods of tears as well, but only if they're happy tears. It's a matter of mood rather than specific plot details; if you can write about Buffy dying of horrible radiation-induced cancer and yet still leave the reader thinking "Aww, that's just so sweet how Spike loves her", then go for it. ;-)
gabrielleabelle
Aug. 19th, 2010 12:48 am (UTC)
It appears most people disagree with me on this one, judging by the comments. Meh. I'd hate to throw a deathfic out there under the schmoop label given the general consensus on this, even if I don't quite agree with said consensus.

(no subject) - eilowyn - Aug. 19th, 2010 02:00 am (UTC) - Expand
concinnity
Aug. 19th, 2010 12:53 am (UTC)
Unless they both die and live happily ever after in heaven together, death!schmoop is damn near an oxymoron. There can be romantic death. And there can be bits of schmoop in death!fic, especially if it is a secondary character death. (I'm thinking in particular of that Snarryfic where Lily is in heaven, do you know the one I mean? Really nicely done stuff, and some serious romance and a bit of schmoop. Fair amount of dead people, dark stuff, seriously happy ending.)

But schmoop!death!fic? No way. Mourning does not = schmoop. Nosirreebob. Schmoop = fluffy happy and preferably a little cracky, since everyone in love is pretty dorky sometimes. :)
gabrielleabelle
Aug. 19th, 2010 01:34 am (UTC)
Noted.
eowyn_315
Aug. 19th, 2010 12:55 am (UTC)
So I like my schmoop_fics to have something of an edge to them.

That's pretty much the only way I'd ever read it, lol.

That said, I don't think that's the commonly accepted definition. When I hear schmoop, I definitely think romantic and/or smutty, fluffy, happy ending, possibly with such saccharine sweetness it will make me puke. :)
gabrielleabelle
Aug. 19th, 2010 12:59 am (UTC)
*looks at comments*

Definitely not the commonly accepted definition. Though given the definition rebcake dug up, I don't see why it wouldn't be. But apparently the word has different connotations for other people that come with an expectation of a happy ending. So I'm gonna have to do this fic outside the schmoop_bingo prompts. :)
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eilowyn
Aug. 19th, 2010 01:48 am (UTC)
Schmoop is the opposite of angst. Schmoop makes you squee. Can also include a personal kink, which is the opposite of squick. Fictions of the schmoop persuasion are usually domestic and intimate, and deal with the quiet home life of the characters rather than the epic superhero life.
gabrielleabelle
Aug. 19th, 2010 01:57 am (UTC)
I thought fluff was the opposite of angst. Are fluff and schmoop synonymous?
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hello_spikey
Aug. 19th, 2010 02:20 am (UTC)
Schmoop to me means the fic leaves me feeling all cuddled.

There may be cuddles.

There are almost definitely cuddles.

A schmoopy illness is non-life-threatening, and focusses on how cutely pouty the sick partner is, how loving the healthy one is, risking gross tissues and whinging to bring hot soup and cold compresses.

Non-schmoopy illness... yeah. Now you have me thinking how cool it would be to have a story where a vampire is exposed to radiation. Would there be lingering affects? Would he (presuming good guy vamp) have to isolate himself for the protection of others?

Would that suck major? *gleeful hand rubbings of evol fic*
gabrielleabelle
Aug. 19th, 2010 02:25 am (UTC)
A schmoopy illness is non-life-threatening, and focusses on how cutely pouty the sick partner is, how loving the healthy one is, risking gross tissues and whinging to bring hot soup and cold compresses.

Well, that's my plan for my upcoming prompt, "cuddling while sick". I was hoping to do something different for "anniversary - one partner sick". Though it seems most of fandom associates schmoop with fluff, so I'd be best not doing so.
urania_calliope
Aug. 19th, 2010 04:19 am (UTC)
Schmoop = happy/good feelings/finish reading with a smile

That's what I get out of it. But... You can finish reading something with a smile and a tear.
gabrielleabelle
Aug. 19th, 2010 05:23 pm (UTC)
:)
ever_neutral
Aug. 19th, 2010 07:47 am (UTC)
Oh, I definitely agree with all of your choices falling under the schmoop category. We work from the same definition.

(Though, I tend to think of Wes's death as superficially schmoopy and primarily angsty, because it's not actually Fred. And we know that. And so does he. So, more angsty than schmoopy but still quite schmoopy. /digression)

Hmm. I have decided I can tolerate tragic schmoop in canon infinitely more than happy schmoop. The latter tends to make me wish the characters WOULD die.
gabrielleabelle
Aug. 19th, 2010 05:24 pm (UTC)
Oh! Agreement! Yay! *huggles you*

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lokifan
Aug. 19th, 2010 11:40 am (UTC)
I totally think schmoop is all about the lurve - a monologue about Buffy's love for Spike would definitely qualify, maybe especially if she was dying! But we appear to be the minority.
gabrielleabelle
Aug. 19th, 2010 05:24 pm (UTC)
More agreement! *is happy now*
bookishwench
Aug. 20th, 2010 04:39 pm (UTC)
When I think schmoop, I think of Somewhere in Time (spoilers ahead). It's romantic to the point of frilly lace dresses and scintillating blue-eyed gazes from Christopher Reeve, but near the end he basically kills himself via despair. I think what keeps the movie schmoop rather than romantic angst is the last image of him and Elise in (suitably fluffy-cloudy) heaven. So death in schmoop is possible, though probably unexpected, but it does need a happy ending in spite of the death.
gabrielleabelle
Aug. 20th, 2010 09:57 pm (UTC)
Yeah, a happy ending seems to be the consensus on this one.
damnskippytoo
Aug. 20th, 2010 05:54 pm (UTC)
These are all just my thoughts - not taken from any kind of generally accepted fandom source.

I think of schmoop as the antithesis of angst. Angst, for me, has a romantic element that ends tragically or on some level of badness, whereas schmoop is romantic with a happy/sweet ending.

Angst conjures up images of heavy sobbing, multitudes of hankies, and chest beating with simultaneous wails of "Why, Lord, why?" Without romance, a story falls into the drama or tragedy category. Angst is drama and/or tragedy, but the reverse isn't necessarily true.

Fluffy fics are lighthearted in general, do not end badly, but do not need romance. They can be friendship fics, e.g. You could equate fluff as the antithesis of drama. So schmoop is a form of fluff with the romance thrown in as angst is a form of drama and/or tragedy with romance as the main source of the drama/tragedy.
gabrielleabelle
Aug. 20th, 2010 09:58 pm (UTC)
That seems to be the general thought. I've never really connected schmoop with fluff before. Schmoop can be fluffy, but schmoop, for me, is basically "sap", which can exist in a variety of different stories.

But I appear to be the odd one out.
( 53 comments — Leave a comment )

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gabrielleabelle
The One Who Isn't Chosen

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