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Being a Fan

sadistic pollgirl7
I should be studying. But I'm not.

This might seem like an odd poll at first, but do read this explanation before taking. It should clarify the intent.

It's an easy bet that if I asked my flist if they're fans of BtVS, most people would say they are. Duh. However, I've been pondering for a while on the intricacies of that. A good number of people seem to be fans of the characters or concepts, but not so much of the actual events that may have happened. This is especially noticeable when you get to S6 and S7, which some fans are apt to write off entirely.

So here's the question on this one: As a whole, did you like the narrative of BtVS? Starting from the first moments of Welcome to the Hellmouth all the way to Buffy's smile in Chosen, did you dig it? Of course, everybody's gonna have some parts they disliked. That's natural. But does the good outweigh the bad so that you can sit back, look at all seven seasons, and say, "Yeah. That was a good story"?

*Given that I don't read the comics, we're just working with TV canon here.

And because I'm feeling slightly evil, I'm limiting your options to a strict yes/no answer. Choose which one is closest to your opinion. If you find yourself having to exclude whole swaths of seasons in order to think positively on the story, you're probably gonna have to choose "no".

After voting (and possibly commenting), check out the AtS edition of this poll.



Poll #1605803
Open to: All, detailed results viewable to: All, participants: 137

Did you like the overall story that BtVS told?

View Answers
Yes
128 (94.1%)
No
8 (5.9%)



Comments

( 57 comments — Leave a comment )
ceciliaj
Aug. 14th, 2010 09:40 pm (UTC)
Yay, I like this poll. The answer is an unqualified "yes." Also, for reference, the answer for Angel is "no." I actually loved watching it, I loved the sweeps of emotion, and I enjoyed almost every episode on its own terms. But when I look back and try to put it together - "no." But I am glad it exists, if that makes sense. I just see it as a big failed experiment, whereas I see Buffy as a big successful experiment, albeit with a few mis-steps along the way.
gingerwall
Aug. 14th, 2010 09:54 pm (UTC)
Yes! You just described my feelings on Angel vs. Buffy so well. They were both fun to watch, and both had great characters, but as a series Angel was missing something that Buffy had, some kind of hard-to-define thematic unity to the series arc which tied the whole series together, and makes it ultimately a lot more satisfying.
(no subject) - gabrielleabelle - Aug. 14th, 2010 10:01 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ceciliaj - Aug. 14th, 2010 10:03 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - peroxidepirate - Aug. 14th, 2010 10:03 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - pocochina - Aug. 14th, 2010 10:29 pm (UTC) - Expand
me_llamo_nic
Aug. 14th, 2010 09:49 pm (UTC)
I deliver an unabashed and resounding "YES" to this poll.

There is little (if any) of the narrative that I actually don't enjoy. (I've accepted that I'm in the minority on this.)
gabrielleabelle
Aug. 14th, 2010 10:02 pm (UTC)
Well, the poll's pretty unanimous so far, so you're very much not in the minority yet. :)
(no subject) - me_llamo_nic - Aug. 14th, 2010 10:09 pm (UTC) - Expand
elisi
Aug. 14th, 2010 09:54 pm (UTC)
Easiest poll ever! :)
gabrielleabelle
Aug. 14th, 2010 10:02 pm (UTC)
The results are making me happy. :)
christycorr
Aug. 14th, 2010 09:56 pm (UTC)
There are a handful of episodes that I find dull and all, of course; as a whole, the only season-long arc I didn't enjoy much was the Initiative, and even that had its redeeming details. So yes. Without a doubt!
gabrielleabelle
Aug. 14th, 2010 10:03 pm (UTC)
:)
menomegirl
Aug. 14th, 2010 09:58 pm (UTC)
My response was, of course, yes. I would vote the same for Angel as a series.
gabrielleabelle
Aug. 14th, 2010 10:03 pm (UTC)
:)
(no subject) - menomegirl - Aug. 14th, 2010 10:07 pm (UTC) - Expand
gillo
Aug. 14th, 2010 10:49 pm (UTC)
Yes, indubitably. I can't think of any individual episodes I couldn't watch without enjoyment, even those generally considered not so good - because weaker
Buffy
is generally better than most other stuff.
Angel
I'm less certain about - must give it thought.
gabrielleabelle
Aug. 14th, 2010 10:52 pm (UTC)
Word. Though I am a critical fan, at the end of the day, I still do adore the show as a whole. It makes me happy. :)
amycooper
Aug. 14th, 2010 11:06 pm (UTC)
There's a lot of people out there, it seems, that don't like S6 & S7. I do.
gabrielleabelle
Aug. 14th, 2010 11:16 pm (UTC)
Indeed. Though if they're taking the poll, they're obviously not letting it negatively impact their overall opinion on the show. So yay?
eleusis_walks
Aug. 15th, 2010 01:05 am (UTC)
Hi, here via the Herald. I had to put a 'no' here just because I think Season 7 really misses the boat. I love BtVS but a narrative is about a beginning, a middle and an end, and I find the ending of BtVS deeply unsatisfying.
gabrielleabelle
Aug. 15th, 2010 02:59 am (UTC)
Hey, I'm just happy there's a vote for 'no'. I hate one-sided poll results. :)
(no subject) - willowy_dawn - Aug. 15th, 2010 12:34 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - words_by_ash - Aug. 15th, 2010 05:58 pm (UTC) - Expand
ever_neutral
Aug. 15th, 2010 02:04 am (UTC)
Absotively yes. It was perfect, from beginning to end. PERFECT I SAY!!!
gabrielleabelle
Aug. 15th, 2010 02:59 am (UTC)
I WILL NEVER DOUBT YOU!!!
dragonflylady77
Aug. 15th, 2010 02:19 am (UTC)
Hmm. YES!

Can't do the Angel poll cos I've only seen most of season 5...
gabrielleabelle
Aug. 15th, 2010 03:00 am (UTC)
Yay! Buffy! :)
saena17
Aug. 15th, 2010 02:51 am (UTC)
After posting my reasons why I didn't like the narrative of Angel in your other poll, it's nice to come here and give a more positive response! My answer to this question is a resounding yes. Sure, the first season or so is a little too campy for my taste, but personal preferences aside, the story is honestly good. And I liked the whole arc that was established, from our first introduction to a cheerleader who can also save the world to the somewhat cheesy but still effective conclusion of girls all over the world becoming heroes. (Also, I love season 6. Just putting that out there.)

On a most basic level, I think if you have more than 10 favorite episodes of a show (which I do for Buffy), it's safe to say you like the narrative. :P
gabrielleabelle
Aug. 15th, 2010 03:01 am (UTC)
Indeed. BtVS has its weak moments, but the central narrative is perfection to me. It makes me happy. :)
mediumajaxwench
Aug. 15th, 2010 03:07 am (UTC)
I love the overall narrative of Buffy coming to terms with her power and taking control of it. I think I love the characters more than the narrative, but I still have enough narrative love to want to draw squiggly hearts around it. I also have issues with some of the execution of that narrative, especially in the later seasons, but not enough to dampen my overall love for the show.
gabrielleabelle
Aug. 15th, 2010 05:44 am (UTC)
Yeah, execution issues often crop up, especially later in the show. But on the whole, I think the series is a good. :)
zanthinegirl
Aug. 15th, 2010 06:54 am (UTC)
I don't like all the the places they took the characters-- I love early Willow for example, and I really don't much care for her in the last few seasons. And I think they writing got kind of hit-and-miss that last few seasons. But that actually feels realistic to me. I love the journey and the story as a whole!
gabrielleabelle
Aug. 15th, 2010 03:31 pm (UTC)
Word. Except I love all Willow. :)
evangelin1202
Aug. 15th, 2010 07:43 am (UTC)
Of course!
While I don't like every episode and every season, I love BtVS as a whole. As I said at the AtS poll there are a lot of BtVS characters I can't stand, definitely more than the characters I love but the ones I love...they make it worth it. And as a whole I think the show was really good, deeper then it seems, fun but serious when it should be, sad but amusing too, supernatural and painfully real. It wouldn've been one of the best shows out there but Spike made it the best! *g*
gabrielleabelle
Aug. 15th, 2010 03:31 pm (UTC)
:)
thevera
Aug. 15th, 2010 10:55 am (UTC)
*goes for the short and heart-lighted light-hearted answer*

Yes! ♥ I sure like it, and the parts I immensely disliked (which is, what, less than 5%?) I can always fanwank into liking. :) I'm mostly thinking the drug metaphor here.
willowy_dawn
Aug. 15th, 2010 12:43 pm (UTC)
So much is made of the 'drug metaphor' when Willow's story is much more about the abuse of power & the reduction of self & others through its abuse. Actual drug addiction is exited (when it is) by the recognition that drugs (apart from their physical hold) are themselves a metaphor for the self-destruction which is already occurring before the first sample. The addict finds the drug which will best express the conflict & the damage in the soul to begin with. Tara knows already in S5 that Willow is entering dangerous territory without adequate self-reflection.

(no subject) - local_max - Aug. 16th, 2010 09:50 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - gabrielleabelle - Aug. 15th, 2010 03:32 pm (UTC) - Expand
sueworld2003
Aug. 15th, 2010 12:55 pm (UTC)
Yes, except I loathed the whole season 7 empowerment spell malarkey. I just felt it really didn't work on sooooo many levels.
gabrielleabelle
Aug. 15th, 2010 03:32 pm (UTC)
Not an uncommon opinion, I would imagine. :)
willowy_dawn
Aug. 15th, 2010 12:56 pm (UTC)
Only one other fictional story feels as real, traverses as much territory, for me & seems to have found the world that surrounds the world. The Lord of the Rings & Buffy feel like they tell the story of the world with the right amounts of joy & terror, dream & desire.

While Tolkien's more neatly closed off, Buffy has the sort of finish that's undone through the artists' reach exceeding their grasp ("or what's a Heaven for?"). BtVS has the right kind of flaws where it has flaws. It's always more than the sum of the parts.
gabrielleabelle
Aug. 15th, 2010 03:33 pm (UTC)
:)
goldenusagi
Aug. 15th, 2010 01:18 pm (UTC)
Wow, LOL. I expected to be in the minority, but not by that much. But I chose no because there ARE whole swaths of seasons I'd have to exclude in order to answer positively, if that's the criteria we're voting by.

Edited at 2010-08-15 01:19 pm (UTC)
gabrielleabelle
Aug. 15th, 2010 03:33 pm (UTC)
NO! Dissenting opinion!!! ;)
bluemage55
Aug. 15th, 2010 03:43 pm (UTC)
BtVS is certainly not without it's flaws. Even the best television shows have weak episodes, but I was most disappointed with the progressive trend to add more characters to create new dynamics rather than focus on the core relationships already present. I especially felt this way in S7: with the death of Tara, the Xander/Anya breakup, the return of Giles, and Buffy's promise to Dawn, I came out of S6 hoping/expecting that S7 would provide a return to the Scoobies. Instead, we got Robin (meh) and Kennedy (eww) as well as the other Potentials, and only a few bones tossed to us for the main relationships.

For me, the story had an amazing beginning, a strong if sometimes controversial middle, but a slightly weak ending. Still, the overall narrative was a very enjoyable one, so I definitely vote yes (and hope that Whedon can improve on the ocmics to provide a better ending).
gabrielleabelle
Aug. 15th, 2010 05:55 pm (UTC)
I think S7 showed the lack of Joss. I too wish they'd focused more on the Scooby dynamics after S6 rather than the lackluster external plot.

I would love to find a link to this, but someone told me about how Joss checked in when Faith had been introduced to S7. The writers were busy trying to figure out what would happen with the First and all now that Faith was there. And Joss was like, "Huh? Dudes, Faith's back! How do the other characters react to that? What's going on there?"

That kinda clarified one of my main issues with S7 in that the focus was off.

On the other hand, I still think it managed to hold together because of the strength of the resonance of the ending, which ties the whole narrative of the series together. So while the end is shaky, it's still successful for me.
(no subject) - bluemage55 - Aug. 15th, 2010 08:43 pm (UTC) - Expand
lycoris
Aug. 15th, 2010 09:20 pm (UTC)
I voted yes all the way. There's hardly any episodes of Buffy that I don't enjoy on SOME level. I love the characters, I love the stories, I mostly love the execution of the stories, I like the ambitions the show has (even if they don't always live up to those ambitions) I love where we start and where we finish. I love all seven seasons. It's just so very, very pleasing!
gabrielleabelle
Aug. 16th, 2010 03:35 am (UTC)
Word. :)
local_max
Aug. 15th, 2010 09:56 pm (UTC)
Yes. Basically, it's my favourite long-run show (there may be a few shows that run fewer than ~20 episodes that I prefer overall, but that's another question). Its central story is Buffy's, and that one is wonderful and complete; and there are I'd say three major series-long (or nearly series-long) satellite arcs that, while imperfect, feel to me to be very strong: Willow's corruption, Spike's redemption, and Xander's slow climb to self-actualization in the shadow of his Strong Woman idol/hero. I feel like Giles qua Giles doesn't have a complete story arc but does have a complete arc as Buffy's Watcher and as the surrogate father figure to the gang; this doesn't bother me because of the possibility, never actualized but always in potentio, for the Ripper series to explore his own edges. (I think a lot of his story was deliberately being saved up for a series that, sadly, never happened.) And along the way there are shorter stories that take up a half, a third, a quarter of the series: Dawn and Buffy's relationship, Faith's negotiating her power as a person and as a contrast to Buffy, Cordelia's transformation from mean girl to moderate hero, Riley's "good patriarchy" slowly imploding in the presence of Buffy, Anya's introduction to humanity, Jonathan's flitting in and out of the gang's sphere of influence, Andrew's redemption and role as a commentary on fandom, Tara's growing confidence, etc. Even Oz, whose arc eventually gets compressed into Wild at Heart and New Moon Rising, has a good story. And many of the season villains (Angelus, Dru, the Mayor, the underrated Glory & Ben, Warren) are given exceptional development both as their own characteers and as symbols to the central story. Fundamentally the show itself follows the standard growing up template, which is pretty ready-made, but it dares to follow the template to its illogical conclusion and see it break apart entirely with "The Gift" (tentatively) and especially season six, transforming the entire story into something far greater, and of course thornier, than it would have been. I guess I should mention that I think season seven ultimately was botched in ways that undermined a lot of what season six did well: Xander and Anya's arc as a couple and as individuals is/are amazing up to Selfless and then meanders uncontrollably until End of Days/Chosen awkwardly (but satisfyingly) rights it (with his moment with Dawn in Potential one of the highlights), Giles is given little to do in his new role (or lack of role) until LMPTM, and so on. But ultimately season seven succeeds conceptually even when it misses some of the key elements in execution. The whole thing is just great.
gabrielleabelle
Aug. 16th, 2010 03:37 am (UTC)
Word. *loves on your thoughts*
sparkiyfaerie
Aug. 16th, 2010 09:15 am (UTC)
I love the show, yeah, but I answered 'no' to the poll.

There are big black holes in the greatness of the plot for me; I don't DISlike Seasons 1-4 and 7, but the only ones I can say I really LOVED were Seasons 5 and 6... mainly because Dawn and Spike are my favourite characters and they had really significant roles in those seasons (and no, I'm not talking about the many naked!Spike scenes in S6, although they certainly didn't hurt ;D).

As a whole, I find I dislike most of the characters in BtVS (most notably, Xander and Giles) for one reason or another, and those traits just bug the heck outta me and I can't enjoy many of their positive aspects. Not that this really impacts the STORY any, but it DOES detract from the overall enjoyment of the show. I spend so much time during the plot thinking "What the hell did s/he do that for? Can't s/he see that's just making it worse?!" (Xander is the most common offender in this regard - Becoming pt.2 ["Kick his ass"] and Into the Woods [where the hell does he get off making Buffy feel like it's her fault?!] being my most hated Xander scenes).

And then there are the characters that I just find so boring and whose story arcs I wanna zap through *coughAngelandRileycough* when I watch them.

The thing that Buffy does for me is mainly villains. S1's Darla villain, S2's Spike/Dru/Angelus combination and S5's Glory made the story worth watching for me. Season 6 was great character development for the Scoobies, where the villains were lacking, but Season 7 just keeled over and died a horrible death; the only thing that made that Season watch-able was watching Spike struggle with his soul.

...I just realised how much I hate most of the characters, and now I find it weird how much I enjoy the show...
gabrielleabelle
Aug. 17th, 2010 04:44 pm (UTC)
lol! Thanks for sharing your thoughts. :)
larabeckinsale
Aug. 16th, 2010 01:31 pm (UTC)
My answer is YES, YES, YES. And even though there's a lot that could have been handled better, I still think of it as a good try at showing a female character defying stereotypes. It's a show I'd want my hypotetical daughter to watch.

Btw, I actually like S6 and S7 more than the rest of the series.

I don't know about Angel.
gabrielleabelle
Aug. 17th, 2010 04:44 pm (UTC)
Word. :)
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