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Angel the Feminist Icon?

will57
So people on my flist kept pointing to this thread on Whedonesque as awesome beyond awesome. So I decided to kick back and snail my way through it. Then I hit this comment about Angel as a male feminist icon and my eyebrows nearly left my face.

Cause...really? Really? The paternalistic father figure whose purpose is to save the damsel? Really???

So I'm interested. Let's poll. Don't get caught up in the semantics of "feminist icon", folks. The basic gist is: Do you see Angel as an extraordinary example of a feminist* man in the media?

Poll #1599116
Open to: All, detailed results viewable to: All, participants: 151

Is Angel a male feminist icon?

View Answers
Yes
3 (2.0%)
No
133 (89.3%)
Not sure
13 (8.7%)


Discuss as needed. Convince me.

* Not really referring to the specific political orientation, but just if Angel appears to follow a feminist philosophy in his actions.

Comments

gabrielleabelle
Jul. 30th, 2010 04:08 am (UTC)
She did it because the baby's soul leaked into her...

So the baby - motherhood - allowed her to choose to redeem herself...

So motherhood tamed the wild woman and brought her redemption.

It just bothers me. I liked Darla a lot, but I hated that plotline.
shipperx
Jul. 30th, 2010 04:18 am (UTC)
I can be pragmatic about a lot of stuff. Julie Benz was only ever recurring so she was always only around for a limited number of episodes so I wasn't all that bothered by the character being written out that way. After all, once the pregnancy was entered into, there were only a limited number of outcomes. She could do something horrible to the baby, which, I think would be an even more negative stigma to hang on the female character. She could abandon the baby, which again, would hardly come across as a positive. She could passively die in childbirth. Or she could make an active choice for the dead to bring forth life. Of the options available once the story had begun, I think it was perhaps the most proactive female option available that wasn't loaded with even momre female negative messages.

On the other hand, I was greatly bothered by the way that Cordy was destroyed because that made no sense and was totally unecessary destruction of a character. She was passive (hell comatose) bringing forth an evil (female) child that then hoodwinked teh menz. So with Cordy we have evidence of how Darla's story could have been much more destructive with her being much more passive (am still pissed on Cordy's behalf).

I'm okay with Darla feeling something for her child. It's a pretty primal instinct. If baby had a soul, she had created it, so that's something too. I totally understand your criticism and can't really argue against the criticism. It just didn't bother me all that much.

If I'm looking at AtS's poor treatment of women, the first character I point too is the needless destruction of Cordy, and the second character would be Lilah, because I never, ever, ever understood what they did to Lilah. Why, show, why? I'd even put Fred a bit higher on the list (though I've always suspected that Fred wasn't killed just to give Wesley man pain but because Joss thought Illyria was really, really cool. Still the whole "her soul was incinerated" as an afterthought of the show hacked me off). Darla, I thought, had a pretty good arc, significantly better handled than her having been offed with no thought whatsoever and no hesitation so that Angel could impress Buffy back on BtVS. The only female character on the show that I thought got a better arc was Faith, and again, I prefer Faith's arc and think she was treated more fairly in her arc on AtS than either of her stints on Buffy.

Cordy was screwed though. Boy she was massively, inexcusably screwed.

Edited at 2010-07-30 04:45 am (UTC)
shapinglight
Jul. 30th, 2010 09:57 am (UTC)
I think Darla's death as it was handled was at least better than what I read Tim Minear wanted to do, which was to have Angel or one of the others stake her so the baby would live.

At least this way, she had some agency.
gabrielleabelle
Jul. 30th, 2010 04:45 pm (UTC)
*shrugs*

Different things will bother different people. Honestly, Fred's death bothers me the most. Then Cordy's. Then Darla's pregnancy fiasco. But just because some stuff bothers me more doesn't meant I'll reserve comment on the stuff that bothers me less.

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will57
gabrielleabelle
The One Who Isn't Chosen

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