They hadn't slept with each other in Into the Woods,right?

In the SECOND case, it meant that Buffy was trying to pretend that nothing had happened. Not only had she SEEN him naked she had done a lot more, but now she was NOT watching him dress. Always keeping him a step away.

In the first case I think it's just a matter of keeping the sexual tension up!

Interesting connection. I approve of parallels!

Also note why they were sleeping naked: Buffy because she'd been sleeping with Riley, Spike because he'd been sleeping with Buffy. Yes, I know he put clothes on to come back and sleep in his room, and we assume that he always sleeps naked (is it only because of this scene?), but he even goes so far as to mention that he as sleeping at that time because of what they had been up to the night before.

Oh, I do love that scene to death. Thanks for pointing that out! My imaginary naked!sleeping!spike is still intact.

Hm.....Didn't Xander peek at Buffy undressing in Never Kill A Boy on the First Date?

I'd give props to Spike if it wasn't for the sweater-stealing (or was it panty-stealing? I can't remember.) while he was in her room uninvited. That was low and freaky.

Also, that was not an episode that showed Spike at his best.

Edited at 2010-06-11 10:49 pm (UTC)

Xander's mirror peep show skeeved me out in S1.

Me too. I often think people forget those small, not-good traits of Xander's.

Xander was the precursor to skeeving over Buffy (and even the AR thing). When Spike comes along, all soulless and evil, it's not treated as harmlessly (nor should it be). It bothers me when guys get away with this stuff 'cause they're good and moral and Nice. And it's why I love Spike--he owns up to his mistakes, changes and grows.

YES! I mean, hell, it was intrusive when Spike did it, and it's intrusive when Xander did it.

Xander gets away with quite a bit of skeevy shit. His revenge love spell in BBB was discussed a while back. He never really owns up to it all, though.

Spike's definitely skeevy in S5, but it's shown as skeevy, and he's called out on it all. Plus, he goes above and beyond to change, and Buffy ultimately doesn't fall for him because of the skeeviness. She falls for him because he eventually recognized it was wrong. Thus subverting the horribly annoying Stalking Gets the Girl trope you see in romantic comedies)

Yes. There are a lot of episodes that don't show Spike at his best. I'm wondering why people feel the need to bring them up, though, in response to a comment giving him minor kudos over Xander...

What's the colour of the crayon you're drawing this very interesting parallel with?

I agree, it must mean something.
And yes, Spike totally gets points for not trying to sneak a peek!

Word.

Important parallel is important.

I think it mostly signifies the change in roles (perhaps even the change in gender roles in Season 6? Buffy is being gentlemanly by turning her back?). Spike is the pursuer in Season 5, Buffy becomes more the pursuer in Season 6.

Oh, just had a thought. Since Spike typically plays the feminine to Buffy's masculine, I'm imagining his stalking in Season 5 as if he actually were a woman. Imagine Spike innocently in Buffy's house because (s)he stuck around with Buffy the night before, perhaps got invited in because of the sunlight and the fact that (s)he was decent to Buffy. Buffy and Joyce go off to the hospital and lady!Spike ambles around the house, comes across (instead of rifling through Buffy's room) one of Buffy's pieces of clothes and sniffs it to catch her scent, sighing with pleasure.

Is it still as skeevy? Still as gross?

Because women being attracted to "men"'s scent doesn't seem as skeevy to me. I mean, it's partly why you always see ladies sleeping in men's shirts the morning after--scent and also it's more comfortable sometimes than what the woman wore.

I dunno. Have you ever leaned in closer to a guy just because they smelled amazing? I've totally done that. And I haven't like gone looking for clothes to smell when I'm not with someone, haha, but I can see it happening somewhat innocently in an unrequited-love situation.

Edited at 2010-06-12 12:43 am (UTC)

Haha, I was more saying Buffy was being gentlemanly with a sense of irony. Like on the face of it, it's the gentlemanly thing to do except she's not doing it for that reason. Just as Spike doing it earlier--he's so not a gentleman.

I'm more imagining the scenario in a less stalkery situation where Spiketta has an invitation to be in the house while Buff isn't there. It seems less creepy to me, but I'm imagining it as Spiketta not delibeartely rifling through drawers. Maybe happening across it accidentally and noticing the scent.

I actually have no sense of smell anymore (gah! my nose fails :( why?) but scent was always very triggery for me with memory and attraction. I can remember not thinking much about this one guy, then happening to stand close enough to him one day and smelling his cologne. HOT. I think it's a visceral thing. When I was 13, I remember messing around with men's cologne swatches over at my friends and swooning over the scents.

Edited at 2010-06-12 01:40 am (UTC)

Wait- people think Spike was in the house the next morning because Buffy invited him to stay the night? Is that why there is so much fic about this? The idea never occurred to me. I did think they stayed on the porch for a long time and she eventually told him about her mom, but I thought he'd just snuck in because he knew she'd be out (since he knew about her mom and all). Loving Spike for the back porch scene in FFL and being completely creeped out by the underwear thing in the next scene is one of the difficulties of evil!Spike, that's for sure. I've never understood why soulless = underwear fetish.

Heh. I'm imagining him hiding in the basement now.

[Can we give props to Spike for not trying to peek at Buffy dressing in the mirror a la Xander?]

I hadn't thought about it, but falling for Buffy brings out William-ness -- the awkward, uncertain, timid, shy, inexperienced boy he was, and the struggle which eventuates in going to get his soul is a struggle to unify the two. Spike created himself by interring William; Buffy unintentionally resurrects William & rather than trying to cure himself, Spike yields to her influence.

Spike and Buffy have MANY parallel scenes. There's also the Crush/Wrecked one. "It doesn't change anything", "It changes everything"/"Things have changed", "Nothing's changed". *pets my parallel-y ship*

Re: Xander and privacy. On the topic of coming into Buffy's bathroom - I always found Xander's insensitivity regarding the AR kind of annoying. He tells Dawn about it against Buffy's will, and then constantly throws it in Buffy's face after the fact, as though she's not traumatised enough. I get it, friendly concern, but it always struck me as a remarkably insensitive way to be supportive... But for the rest of S7, he shuts up and lets Buffy be, so good.

*flails*

I SEE WHAT SPIKE DID THERE!

Yes! The Dead Things/Chosen parallel!

"I have to do this. Just let me go." "I can't. I love you." "No, you don't."

to

"I gotta do this!" "I love you." "No, you don't. But thanks for saying it."

It makes me happy.

Come on now, we all know large swathes of the last couple seasons didn't actually happen. :P

Yeah. It's hard to be a proponent of Bander considering the judge-y history.

FIRST TIME -- Buffy is vunerable, and no way willing to share it. Spike accepts this.

SECOND TIME -- Spike is vunerable, and very much willing to share it, but Buffy rejects what he is sharing. Spike makes fun of her because of it.




How's that?

Hey! I've been a lurker on this journal for awhile, and I've finally worked up enough moxie to come out of the shadows and say hello! *tries not to be awkward* So...yeah. I really love all the meta you've done and the rape linkspam and pretty much think you're one of the awesomest people on LJ. Can I be your friend? :)

BTW, totally agree on the Xander skeeviness. I recently watched "Surprise", and it bothers me every time he mentions that Buffy crying is a part of his fantasy in which she gets over Angel and hooks up with him and his private jet. And don't get me started on "Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered".