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It seems my womb is still missing

will37
Guys, I've had some rage stored up, and you know what? It ain't over. I thank Bitsy for being the trigger on this one, and please feel free to link him so he can see what he was wrought (In fact, link it far and wide. I'm calling out fandom on its douchebaggery). This is moving beyond his statement though, and this rant? Not directed at him.

Because there is a sickness in fandom. It's not the shipper wars (although those are annoying). No, folks. It's the way sexism is wielded freely as a weapon to curtail honest discussion. It's the way we do it with each other. Women using the tools of the patriarchy to shut each other up.

Okay, geez, how melodramatic can I get, right? Throw me a penguin to get me back down to earth here.

Seriously, guys. I ranted mightily yesterday about how the label of "shipper" is used to silence. How about "fangirl", though? It was brought up in comments that being a female fan of Spike can get you silenced as well. I joke about being "blinded by the Cheekbones o' Sexiness". But it's really not funny because people believe that shit.

What's up with it?

It's female sexuality. It's the idea that women are openly appreciating a man in a sexual way. We like Spike. We think he's a fab character. And most of us also think he's hot. We'll wax philosophic over his chiseled abs, ivory alabaster skin, cheekbones that can cut glass. And then we'll turn around and discuss the subtext of Spike's arc or the metaphorical whatsit of something else.

But, no, you know what sticks out to people? That we are women who are openly sexually attracted to a man. And that's not done. Female sexuality isn't supposed to be like that! It's either for men or it doesn't exist!

So it's used to smack Spike fans down. Try to bring up some intelligent discussion on Spike? Oh, well, she's just blinded by the cheekbones. Silly girl!

You know what they're saying? "You're being way too open with your sexuality. Stop it. Until you stop it, I won't listen to you (unless you say something I agree with)."

Does a man who openly appreciates how hot Faith is then get smacked down if he tries to discuss her (or anything else) later? Why are female fans of Spike subject to being in the "wet panty brigade" but male fans of Buffy aren't in the "stiffies for Slayers brigade"?

Cause dudes are supposed to sexually appreciate female characters. Chicks? Aren't supposed to enjoy men in a similar fashion. If we do, we must meet with sanctions.

Fuck that shit.

These people try to paint us as idiotic, flighty, drooling girls with hardly enough brain capacity to eat a cupcake much less discuss the show. I ask again: Who's the illogical ones here? The ones who appreciate, among many things, the physical beauty of a male actor, or the ones who swiftly decide not to engage an argument and, instead, attack the poster?

It's easy, isn't it? Finding ways to discredit another poster so you don't have to argue with them.

1. Step One: Find out what "faction" of fandom they're in.

2. Step Two: Pick out the most "offensive" feminine activity that they engage in: smutty fanfic about men? fangirling Spuffy? having naked!Spike screenshots in their LJ?

3. Step Three: Be a sexist asswipe and use the activity from Step Two to dismiss them.

Men and women, alike, can do it.

See, I love discussion. I love debating. I love engaging with different ideas and opinions. Different interpretations. I'm a Spuffy fan, yes. I have had some proudly naughty dreams involving naked!Spike, yes. But those things? Don't typically enter into any arguments I'm putting forward. And if they do, then my argument will probably be weak and you can debate the hell out of it. Out of the argument. You know...like you're supposed to do in a debate.

But I suppose it's just easier to give in to the larger sexist culture we live in and use this stuff as ammo to discredit entire portions of fandom. Less time. Less energy. And, hey, you maintain the status quo wherein romance is an icky girly thing and women aren't supposed to enjoy their sexuality. And who doesn't want that???

What would Buffy do, fuckers? I think she'd be disapproving of this bullshit, for one.

Comments

hkath
Apr. 22nd, 2010 07:45 pm (UTC)
Disturbingly enough, though, a lot of female fans play into the idea that the mere sight of chiseled body parts turns them into drooling keyboard-mashing idiots to the exreme, at the detriment of any sort of substantial discussion. I've especially seen this on LJ, where, admittedly, that kind of post is far less likely to be commented on by male fen in search of something to criticize.

Which makes me wonder if it's natural behaviour, or if, due to the unspoken implication that it's lame and/or stupid and/or weaksauce for a female fan to express sexual attraction to a character and expect to be taken seriously, they're somehow expressing their frustration by becoming extreme caricatures of the behaviour they're being accused of.
gabrielleabelle
Apr. 22nd, 2010 08:04 pm (UTC)
I think that there are times when people fall to extreme behaviors when they feel they're in the company of like-minded fans. Like the running penguin jokes in Spuffy fandom. They're great fun and over-the-top ridiculous. However, it's not something I'd throw out there when with a larger group of fans.

Likewise, shipping and fangirling behavior follows similar dynamics wherein with an exclusive, comfortable group, they fall into what (to outsiders) probably appear to be maniacally immature patterns. But those discussions aren't meant for the outsiders (even though lots of people leave the conversations public). And it seems reasonable that, outside those conversations, the individual fans would still be able to hold and intelligent and rational discussion.

I think that has more to do with group dynamics rather than anything else.
bree_black
Apr. 22nd, 2010 08:25 pm (UTC)
Am I being paranoid, influenced by your icon, or are you making an intentional reference to SPN fandom? Either way, it does happen there more than I've ever seen anywhere else - and I have to say I kind of like it.

It's never felt "natural" to me but always as if we're putting on some kind of performance together. Everyone is ridiculous, and everyone knows it; it's more like a game (with rules, even!) than an expression of how we really feel, though of course those things overlap. And I do think it has something to do with the frustration you identify - we can't be attracted to men in this way irl, so we deliberately go over the top in particular, safe fandom spaces.
eilowyn
Apr. 22nd, 2010 08:40 pm (UTC)
I think it is a bit of a game, but it is also an outlet: in the forum of LJ fandom, I can admit my first naughty thoughts ever were about Spike - couldn't even imagine having naughty thoughts until Spike. When I say that, I'm both admitting aspects of my sexuality that I repress in real life (I go to an evangelical university, yo - naughty thoughts are bad!), and making a joke that other like-minded fans will appreciate. And just because I admit something like that does not mean that all my intelligent, well-articulated and argued thoughts about the subject of Spike should be dismissed.
bree_black
Apr. 22nd, 2010 08:50 pm (UTC)
Oh I agree. It's much more than a game most of the time, and I agree about the outlet thing; that happened for me too (Nick Carter uh huh).

I think it turns into a deliberate sort of game in particular places on LJ where "female fans play into the idea that the mere sight of chiseled body parts turns them into drooling keyboard-mashing idiots to the extreme", as hkath wrote. That kind of self-presentation may be rooted in a very real attraction but playing it out is a performance. (I'm sorry I'm new to btvs fandom so I have no examples! All of my experience on this kind of thing is SPN.)
eilowyn
Apr. 22nd, 2010 08:56 pm (UTC)
Well, I'm new to SPN (on season three, so I felt very proud for recognizing the Bella icon), so we're even.
bree_black
Apr. 22nd, 2010 09:03 pm (UTC)
Welcome to the nightmare (well, if you're a feminist). It's a true testament to my love of the show that I can even stomach it sometimes. Weird, weird fandom SPN. (PS - Ignore season three. Season three sucks. Season four is where it's at).
hkath
Apr. 22nd, 2010 08:54 pm (UTC)
Well, "paranoid" might not be the right word, because you're right, but you have no reason to fear. I've seen it & lived it there & otherwhere. It does feel exaggerated & tongue-in-cheek most of the time. It just sort of hit me that I had no idea why we went so over-the-top with it.
bree_black
Apr. 22nd, 2010 09:20 pm (UTC)
Yeah, it's a little crazy but I actually really enjoy it. I think it might be more disturbing if we weren't all so aware of its playfulness. Certainly, to an outsider we'd all look like fools but actually said outsider would be the fool for not understanding the norms of that part of fandom...which is kind of cool.

Speaking of...it's Thursday night, isn't it? I must prepare for my brilliant commentary on a) Sam's tragic lack of bangs b) Dean's arms/lips/eyebrows c) Cas' hands.
hkath
Apr. 23rd, 2010 02:47 am (UTC)
I agree, it is totally fun to just spaz out about things in a place where the spazziest post unofficially wins :)

Lately, though, I've been playing the outsider role, watching my friend go absolutely batshit over someone I don't give a hoot about, and it is kind of weird and unpleasant and sad-feeling :\ It's made me think too much.

LOL @ Sam's lack of bangs. You've been waiting a looooong time for some Sambangs, haven't you? like, mid-season 2? ;)
bree_black
Apr. 23rd, 2010 03:37 am (UTC)
I am interested. Weird and unpleasant how? In that it's make you concerned about gender issues and stuff? Or that it's not something you can share with her since you don't see it?

Thankfully I have only been in SPN fandom for about a year and a half. So I have been waiting about a year and five months for Sambangs.
hkath
Apr. 23rd, 2010 04:58 pm (UTC)
The gender issues is a part of it. But that's mostly due to particular people in SPN fandom being complete jerks about the girlfriends/wives of the people they obsess over, not the obsessing itself. Especially one particular wife, who gets the worst and most irrational hate I've ever seen (and also the most transparently misogynistic - you probably know who I'm talking about).

No, looking at it from the outside, it is like watching people scream at each other in an incredibly emphatic and unbelievably repetitive language I don't understand. Often there is absolutely no context, either, so I have no idea what it is they're reacting *to*. It's disorienting.
bree_black
Apr. 23rd, 2010 05:08 pm (UTC)
Yes I know what you're talking about. Yes it annoys the heck out of me too. :/

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The One Who Isn't Chosen

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