Sleeper! Sleeper!!! Sleeper!!!!!!
- JM is fantabulous in this episode. That's generally a given, but it still bears saying.
- The scene between Anya and Spike is great comedy, but I love it on another level. When Spike wakes up, he's all tough guy, bad-ass, asking Anya why she's rustling through his stuff. Then, as soon as she mentions sex, he's scrunched up against the wall, wide-eyed and freaked out. What a perfect way to show the difference between souled!Spike and soulless!Spike.
Heh. Upside down and halfway to happy town.
- I can't be the only one with the "jealous girlfriend" vibe going off when Buffy confronts Spike in his bedroom. Or maybe I'm just distracted by the fact that Spike's wearing leather pants and no shirt.
-
- And the bestest bestest scene ever down in the basement.
Cause stairs have been a running theme for Spuffy. That and Spike being "beneath" Buffy. Last we saw in the Stairs Saga, Buffy was coming down to Spike's level in After Life. However, Spike's level was in her home, as he was trying to fit in with the other humans.
Now, however, we're in a basement. Spike goes down to the bottom of the stairs, but Buffy hesitates. The basement here is Spike's rock bottom. It's his monster, created by the First Evil (FE). It's the full horror of what he is. Buffy eventually goes down and ends up attacked by his little vamplings.
Love it love it love it. Why do I love it? Because Spike gives up at this point. He tried so freaking hard. Trying to be good without a soul. Fighting to get a soul when that fell through. And then it just didn't work. He couldn't escape from his demonness. He's still killing people.
So Spike opens up his shirt to give Buffy her chance. Cause, you know, Buffy's been saying for years how she's just waiting for Spike to give her a reason to dust him. Now she's got it. Objectively, Buffy knows that, yeah, he killed all those people.
But she also clues in to the fact that he's not quite in control of what's going on.
In Help, Spike asked Buffy to help him when he was crazy in the school basement. She tells him that she thinks it's worse when she's there. Here, he asks Buffy for help again, and this time, she agrees.
Early S7 is a gradual process for Buffy. After the attempted rape, she has no real reason to give Spike any benefit of the doubt. However, his revelation in Beneath You set the gears turning in her head. Makes her rethink a lot of things. But she's hesitant because she can't get a gauge on his recently souled up state. At first, he's just too crazy. She can't get a read on whether he's still a threat or not. So after Selfless, she moves him in with Xander to get him away from bad Hellmouth-y vibes.
In CWDP, though, the bombshell of Spike siring Holden makes her assume the worst: that Spike is willingly evil again. She doesn't dust him right off the bat, though. She tries to catch him in the act. When that fails, she directly confronts him. Finally, seeing his behavior in the basement clarifies for her that he's being controlled. That he's only a threat because of some outside force acting on him.
Unfortunately, just now when Buffy's getting to the point of unwavering belief in Spike, he's given up on himself.
*can't wait for Never Leave Me*
*huggles Spike*
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Comments
No, that's quite deliberate. The shooting script specifies that Buffy is visibly affected when Spike goads that him screwing around with a bunch of other girls 'touches a nerve'. And how much does that scene remind you of a thousand other scenarios where the girl barges into the guy's room and demands to know where he's 'stashed' his other girls? ;)
JM kills me in that last scene. Why so good, JM?
*g* Except with the Buffy twist in that she's demanding to know if he killed all the girls. So lovely. :)
JM kills me in that last scene. Why so good, JM?
*nods*
Well, it is easy to get distracted by that! :D
But what really gets to my heart is when everything points to Spike being evil, and he remembers things he's done: first thing he does is call Buffy.
But what really gets to my heart is when everything points to Spike being evil, and he remembers things he's done: first thing he does is call Buffy.
Yes! He doesn't try to hide it or fix it himself. He just calls Buffy. I loves it. :)
1. Spike's been picking up lots of girls. Different one every time.
2. He and Buffy had actual personal conversations, presumably during their affair.
3. Buffy still thinks Spike is hot. (I never doubted it for a minute.)
Thematic resonance is your field, I'm thinking, but the Spuffy is all over this scene.
It can never be emphasized enough...
Willow established that there are a lot of missing girls, but didn't really provide evidence as to why they're missing. The conversation with the bouncer provides evidence that ties them directly to Spike.
If it's to provide that info to Buffy...well, in the very next scene Spike tells her what he remembers and she gets to fight the vamped up alter egos of the girls, so it's still redundant.
Holden's claim. The missing girls. The bouncer's information. Spike's sort-of confession. None of it conclusive in itself, but all of it fits together.
At this moment, that what is going on in that scene includes BOTH quinara's explanation and rebcake's explanation.
I was just looking for something more than just a functional, exposition-y explanation for the scene, which
I don't see the point in debating it any further, to be honest.
*laughs* To quote Anna:
'But they are still in a relationship. He is hers. Buffy doesn't deny that for a minute. It's a weathered, worn relationship, but it is there and it is real, and it is not any the less a relationship for the battering it's taken. The argument they have in Sleeper is so deliciously, wonderfully a couple having an argument about their relationship it makes me dance round the room (and, you know, shirtlessSpikeinleather). Yes, she wants to get to the truth, but there's that lovely underlying sense all the way through that scene of "I thought you would have told me."'
what's the larger point of that scene? Is it just filler (Unlikely)? Usually, those little scenes have a larger thematic resonance in the context of the episode, but I'm having a bit of difficulty putting my finger on this one.
What
Oh, I *need* to re-watch that episode now...
Also, I second you on the second part as well. The entire episode is about establishing exactly how Buffy is feeling about Spike.
And I'm not sure about the bouncer scene so much. As I said to
But then, I didn't see the need for the big "Will Spike betray Buffy now that he's seen Buffy and Angel smooching?" in Chosen. Sometimes they're playing to a different audience.
Oh, I *need* to re-watch that episode now...
I highly recommend it. :)
That is perfectly normal! :)
And I'm not sure about the bouncer scene so much.
But - Billy Idol! That line on its own is worth the whole thing! (Also what
But then, I didn't see the need for the big "Will Spike betray Buffy now that he's seen Buffy and Angel smooching?" in Chosen. Sometimes they're playing to a different audience.
Well that was just STUPID. (And pandering to the Bangels. By contrast the bouncer scene was pandering to the Spuffies, which makes it awesome.)
As far as the bouncer scene's concerned, I don't think it's filler at all - it plays with all the dynamics of what Buffy and Spike's relationship is and the whole issue in BtVS of vamp-feeding equalling the whole sex-rape spectrum depending on its context (or does it? to what extent? where's the line? etc.). By having Buffy talk about the issue with someone to whom she can't explain it literally in terms of vamps and victims the scene blurs even further the distinction between Buffy's (possible) relationship/sexual jealousy and her confusion, fear of Spike being bad again, fear of the Big Bad, general worry about everything else that's going on (and all their other baggage). But of course it then immediately cuts to Spike getting in communication with Buffy (and how many times can people ever actually get hold of each other by just picking up the phone in BtVS? That simple ring and answer between them is so significant to me), with a quick, straightforward conversation that cuts right through all the weird blurriness of the scene before. Buffy's mixed up feelings don't affect the fact that if Spike calls, she'll meet him. And so, while we see that there is a lot of confusion in Buffy's relationship to Spike, we also see that it's much deeper and more complicated than the chat-up-and-kill/scary-date/all-about-se
Everything about this episode makes me happy. Plus: Aimee Mann! And her line about vampire towns!
The acting is just so solid throughout, and I always tear up when Spike does at the end. What I really love about that final scene (besides the basement symbolism) is that it shows that Buffy can still be compassionate while being "hard." I love how understated SMG is--she's not emoting at all, but you can tell that this is a BIG MOMENT.
It reminds me of the scene earlier with crazy!in!the!basement!Spike when he sees the warm, soft Buffy being all sweet, but that's the First, and then the real Buffy comes tromping in and is all like, "You've got to get out of here, this is killing you." This Buffy, this episode, is that same Buffy. And she's still sort of unwavering, as she is for most of the season. But she also has all these feelings for him and all this mercy, and it's really beautiful.
Wow. What a ramble. Sorry!
Oh! And I also like shirtlessleatherpants!Spike. Just so's you know.
After he's been kidnapped and tortured for some time, though, her facade breaks. Crap, now I'm antsy to get to Showtime just to see that scene and their beautiful, beautiful expressions in it.
Oh! And I also like shirtlessleatherpants!Spike. Just so's you know.
Well, that's a given. :)
And yeah, I lovelovelove the way that you can see her opening up more and more as the season goes along, willing to display her emotions more when it comes to Spike. The last minute of "Showtime" is one of my favorite BtVS scenes ever; I couldn't ask for anything more beautiful.
I see complaints about Buffy being a BIG BITCH and leaving poor Spike down in the basement for so long and it just baffles me cause...yeah, she doesn't owe him anything. Even with the soul. Yes, it takes her some time to figure out what to do with him or if she even wants anything to do with him. But once she decides to help, she does right by him. She's Spike's strongest advocate in S7.
I mean, come on, she turns her back on Giles for him. Giles!
She never did anything like that for Angel.Oh, absolutely. Of course, I want somebody to take Spike out of the basement--but that's because I'm looking at him from his perspective. He hasn't hurt me, and I know his remorse is real. But if you look at it from Buffy's--which I also do--you're right, she doesn't owe him anything at all.
One of the most admirable things about her, one of the reasons she's my hero, is her capacity for forgiveness. She forgave Angel for terrorizing Sunnydale and killing Jenny; she forgave her mom for kicking her out; she forgave Giles for taking her powers away; she forgave Willow for trying to destroy the world; she forgave Spike for the AR; she forgave nearly every damn person in her life for abandoning her when she was most vulnerable. Since forgiveness is one of the things I value most in the world, all that is big for me.
And yeah, the Giles thing? HUGE. However, I really believe she'll forgive him, too. Because she loves him, and that's what she does.
It's interesting to me that the person she has the hardest time forgiving is Faith. Of course, a lot of that has to do with Faith's role as her shadow-self...but that's a whole 'nother thing.
Anyways, you know all this. I just like to ramble about how Buffy is my hero!
Just wanted to say that this is one of my favorite things about Buffy, too. <3
Don't forget, she also forgives Xander for being a big douche at the end of S6.
*huggles Buffy*
The Scoobies in general tend to be pretty forgiving of each other. They wouldn't have been able to stay friends with each other, if they weren't.
No deep thought here from me, I just saw that scene as another way of showing that there were still romantic vibes between buffy and spike.
I like this ep very much too, although I love "Never leave me" a little more, there's a great basement scene there too, actually I think is the conclusion of this one.
It just beautiful how spuffy develops in this season, you can see the love out there even if it's not expressed in words, it's all in those acts of mercy, understanding, forgiveness and companionship.
SR was easier for me on my rewatch than I'd be expecting. I still hated that one scene, but I didn't feel the visceral punch of hatred for it that I used to. And I was able to really enjoy the rest of the episode, which is actually very, very well-done and interesting.