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Newsflash: Women are interesting

will18
Posts about the Bechdel test are going round on metafandom. I feel compelled to give a Bechdel test primer because there seems to be a lot of misunderstanding of the test.

Course, this is just how I get value from the test. I'm not making any assumptions about the originator's intentions. But it is a useful tool, and here's why.

What is it?

It's from a comic strip called "Dykes to Watch Out For". Wikipedia has a handy section on it. For the Wiki-allergic, here's a summary:

One of the characters in the comic states that she only watches a movie if it...

1. Has at least two women in it
2. Who talk to each other
3. About something besides a man.

Do note! This is not saying that such a work is feminist. This is a bare-minimum standard for watchable movies.

Edit: Also, thinking on it, there are very slight, non-plot spoilers for the new Star Trek movie. Very very slight spoilers. Very. But I don't wanna ruin anyone's viewing experience so here, have a disclaimer.



Okay, and...?

The heart of the Bechdel test is an unfortunate truth: our media has the assumption that men are not interested in women except as they relate to men. It is thought that a conversation between two women that isn't about a man could not possibly interest men.

This is probably not actually true. The problem is that the media believes it and they're the producers. They work with "target audiences" and "marketability". The media is, by it's nature, non-progressive as it spends so much time seeking marketability with what it feels is the masses: the traditionalists.

So we get movies with a few token women who only exist to bolster the menfolk.

A movie that passes the Bechdel test, by showing the women completely independent of the men, has a stronger chance of having well-developed female characters.

What about TV shows?

It's difficult to apply the test to TV shows because it's just not as useful. A TV show has more of a likelihood of passing the Bechdel test at some point just by leiu of the fact that there's more air time. A more useful measure is how frequently a TV show passes. Every season? Every episode? Multiple times an episode?

But I can think of plenty of movies that pass! What's the deal?

Yes, there are plenty of movies that pass. "Chick flicks".

The Bechdel test is most usefully applied to movies targeted to men: action, sci-fi, genre, suspense, etc etc.

Go back to the "heart" of the test, as I stated above. Women know that women are interesting people and that we talk about stuff other than guys. It's no big task to have a Bechdel-approved scene in a movie targeted toward women. For a movie that's made for men, it is very, very rare to have them recognize that women are interesting in their own right.

Here's a movie list about movies that pass and movies that fail. Very interesting list.

You're just wanting one scene? That's a bit meager, isn't it?

Yes. Yes, it is. Yet, it's apparently a tall order for genre movies. Hell, it's apparently a tall order to have more than one woman.

If I had my happy way with the world, action movies would have fully-fleshed out females in the cast. They may not even be the love interest. Hell, some may even be the leads.

Again, the Bechdel test isn't a feminist test. It just does what it says on the tin. And a movie that passes the test has better odds of having a good female character or two.

Of course I want more. I want a movie that passes the Bechdel test multiple times. With many different female characters. I want a movie with the chick rescuing the guy. Hell, I want a movie where the chick's love interest is another chick.

These aren't very easy to find because there's a simple, painful false truth in the media:

Action movies are for men --> Men aren't interested in women except as pretty sex toys --> We will provide one female per movie to hang off the lead in order to keep the boys entertained

Yes, the thinking is flawed from the get-go. Action and genre movies aren't only for men. Women enjoy then. Women would probably enjoy them more if we got better female characters from them.

That's the nature of the society we live in.

Say something controversial!

Okay. The Star Trek movie, much as I loved it, didn't pass the Bechdel test.

Wha? But there was that scene! With Uhura and her green roommate! They talked!

Yes, they did. They talked, all the while Kirk was hiding under the roommate's bed. What was the point of the scene?

The point was that Kirk is a womanizer and he has a thing for Uhura.

Did the scene show us that these female characters have interests outside men? Well, with one girl distracted by the guy hiding under her bed, it's kinda hard to judge it as a shining example of "Women are interesting without men!"

But! It revealed that Uhura intercepted the Klingon message! Plot point!

Yay. I still fail to see how that portrays women as independent of any menfolk. We knew Uhura was a communications genius. We knew because her boyfriend, Spock, told us so.

Oh, yeah, what was that? Uhura got relegated to the Love Interest in the movie? Well, damn.

What's the big deal if a movie doesn't pass? It's just a movie.

Because *deep breath* media affects the world. Because it's important to show female characters doing something other than accessorize a guy. Because I'm damn tired of watching boys have all the fun in movies, and I wanna see chicks blowing shit up once in a while.

Does Buffy pass the test?

You bet your ass it does! Multiple times in every episode. That's why I love the show so much.


Comments

stormwreath
Jun. 5th, 2009 12:47 pm (UTC)
Well, Kaylee is talking to Inara about how great it was having her on the ship, and how she'll miss her when she's gone. The fact that Inara is leaving because she can't stay around Mal is implicit in the set-up, but it's not actually what the scene is about except infdirectly.

You could equally say that the conversation between Ripley and Newt in 'Aliens' is indirectly about a man because it was Burke who sent Newt's parents to investigate the alien spaceship in the first place, and so Newt wouldn't be an orphan if it wasn't for him. Where do you draw the line?

Also, you really should watch Serenity. It's an excellent film. The characters are only at odds with each other in the opening scenes so that they can come together heroically later on...

*uses spoilery Serenity icon, just because I'm mean that way.*
gabrielleabelle
Jun. 5th, 2009 05:07 pm (UTC)
Eh, without having actually seen the scene in question, I can't say much more. I will say that it's a bit disappointing that Whedon only has one potential Bechdel-passing scene in the movie...especially considering how many female characters there are in the cast.

I imagine I'll get around to watching Serenity sometime. I'm just being lazy.
mikeda
Jun. 5th, 2009 10:57 pm (UTC)
One big reason is that there are a bunch of scenes where most or all of the crew are talking about something or other. So there are two or more women involved in the conversation but they aren't specifically talking to each other.

gabrielleabelle
Jun. 5th, 2009 11:06 pm (UTC)
Understood. However, were there any scenes with two men talking to each other about something other than a woman?

Actually, I know there are because one of the first scenes is a fight between Mal and Simon.
mikeda
Jun. 6th, 2009 11:41 am (UTC)
Although the fight is about River, so if you're being strict on the criteria...

(There ARE scenes which qualify even under a strict criteria.)

Another part of the reason, incidentally, for the rarity of Bechdel-test-compatible scenes is that Mal is usually in the scene anytime any of the Serenity crew are onscreen.
gabrielleabelle
Jun. 6th, 2009 04:08 pm (UTC)
Another part of the reason, incidentally, for the rarity of Bechdel-test-compatible scenes is that Mal is usually in the scene anytime any of the Serenity crew are onscreen.

...I'm not sure if you're trying to excuse the movie or not. But..

The reason *enter any Sylvester Stallone movie* fails the test is because Stallone is usually in the scene.

The reason *enter any Arnold Schwarzenegger movie* fails the test is because Schwarzenegger is usually in the scene.

The reason *enter any sci-fi movie except the Alien series* fails the test is because *male lead* is usually in the scene.

So...yay?
mikeda
Jun. 6th, 2009 11:49 pm (UTC)
The difference is that the female characters in a Schwarzenegger/Stallone/etc. movie are usually basically appendages (although it is my definite understanding that this is NOT true of Sarah Connor in Terminator/Terminator 2) while in Serenity they are important characters in their own right.

There aren't that many "Bechdel" scenes in Serenity but there aren't all that many "reverse-Bechdel" scenes either. Serenity's crew has both genders and most of the time both genders are on screen.

gabrielleabelle
Jun. 7th, 2009 12:40 am (UTC)
Well, yes. I enjoyed the female characters on Firefly. I imagine I'll enjoy them in Serenity, too.

I don't think it's useful to handwave away the Bechdel test in such a fashion, though. Because it does show us that Serenity, despite the awesomeness of its female characters, still follows the "male protagonist" trope of sci-fi shows and it still presumably has more "reverse-Bechdel" scenes than Bechdel ones (This is a guess on my part, but I imagine its a safe one. Feel free to correct me).

Honestly, saying that the reason for its scanty Bechdel pass is because of the male lead is like someone saying, "Well, this particular (hypothetical) movie didn't pass the Bechdel test because there's only one female character." Yes. Yes, that's the problem, not an excuse to disregard the test.

That's what the Bechdel test does. It points out the tropes that movies focus on the men at the expense of women. Sometimes, the tropes are more extreme and problematic than others. But it's still an issue, regardless of how well the show handles its women otherwise.

Hell, I regard BtVS as a pretty darn feminist show, but I'll freely admit that it has some problematic areas in that regard, most especially in that it perpetuates the "good girls don't have sex" trope that is most commonly found in horror movies (and it US society, at large). Saying that there's a problem area regarding the feminism of a show doesn't negate the rest of the largely positive feminist text. And a show having strong female characters/equal male:female ratio doesn't make it immune to feminist criticism.
mikeda
Jun. 7th, 2009 09:53 pm (UTC)
Mal being the lead does affect things some.

But the main reason for the relative scantiness of pure Bechdel scenes in Serenity is that all of the scenes where there are both males and females talking together are thrown into the "non-Bechdel" category.

Shift those scenes (at least the ones with at least two women) into the "Bechdel" category and you may have more than have the movie in that category.

(I'm tempted to propose upping the limit a bit but allowing fractional Bechdels. A typical Scoobie meeting would get at least half a Bechdel.)
gabrielleabelle
Jun. 8th, 2009 12:13 am (UTC)
I think you're attempting to twist the test too much to suit your purposes. It's not a "feminist test" and it's not much more than...exactly what it is. It's no crime for a movie to not pass or only minimally pass, especially if it makes up for it in other ways. It's just something I had expected better from Joss (though, AtS and Dr. Horrible both run counter to my perception there, so I may have to adjust my own view of Joss' work).

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